Allan is pleased to welcome Instagram guru, speaker, and author, Brendan Kane. Brendan recently released a book called, “Hook Point: How To Stand Out In A 3 Second World.” Allan and Brendan discuss why researching your competitors is the key to maximizing every digital marketing dollar you spend and why businesses should focus on and master one social media platform at a time. This episode is filled with tips that can help your business get started on any social media platform. Please make sure you subscribe and leave a review.
Allan has started and grown several multi million dollar businesses, his mission is to help you do the same. Welcome to the Business Growth Pod, building the future one entrepreneur at a time.
Hey, everyone, welcome to the show. I’m Allan. I’m a family man and attorney and an entrepreneur. Each week, we provide resources and advice to help build your business. Are you ready? Then let’s go.
Everyone, welcome to the show. Today, I’m excited for our guest. He is a social media guru, Brendon Kane, speaker and author, he actually recently released a book called “Hook Point: How To Stand Out In A 3 Second World.” We’re going to kind of get into that a little bit. Welcome to the show, Brendan. Yeah. Thanks for having me. It’s a pleasure to connect with you and everybody that’s listening to this. Yeah. So just so you know, my audience consists mostly of entrepreneurs, I’ve got people that you know, have several multimillion-dollar businesses, I have people that they haven’t, you know, made the leap, yet they’re trying to get things in order so that they can kind of pull the trigger on their business. So with that in mind, tell us a little bit about your journey and what brought you kind of into the profession that you’re in. And, you know, I know that you add a lot of value to entrepreneurs. So can you kind of tell us a little bit about your story? Yeah. So initially, I wanted to be a film producer. So I went to film school to hopefully learn about the business side of the entertainment industry and business in general. And when I showed up, I just quickly realized they teach you nothing about business there. So I had to find a way to really learn on my own, and the most effective way that I believed at the time was to start your own business. So I started a few internet companies while I was going to college, really just to learn and experiment. And then when I moved to Los Angeles, and around 2005, like anybody else, I started at the bottom, you know, I started making copies and copies and deliveries. And when people would ask me, Well, what do you want to do? Why did you move to LA? New, my response was, I want to be a film producer. But I could see everybody’s eyes glaze over, you know, because I was just one of a million other people with the same aspirations. So I knew I needed to find a unique way to stand out and grab attention of the studio executives, I was directors and actors and things of that nature. And I would just see that whenever we finished a film, something that we would spend 10s of millions of dollars to produce a single piece of content, there’d be a sense of anxiety and stress that would come over the studio office that was working yet, because we have to then make sure that hundreds of millions of people around the world know about the single piece of content, otherwise, we really risk losing a ton of money. It’s a it’s a huge investment. And it’s a completely different industry, where you’re building brands overnight, you don’t have years or decades to do it. So seeing that stress and anxiety, I basically just went up to the heads of the studios and said, Listen, I have this experience and understanding digital platforms and traffic acquisition and social media was just coming on the scene. And I was said, I can develop strategies for you, that will essentially get your movie or your trailer out to the masses for either little cost compared to what we were spending on television and radio and print. And then in some cases, no cost at all, because it was so early. So that’s where I was able to effectively you know, go from making coffee to building a digital division for the first studio that I worked for in under a year and a half. I did that for a few years and just realize that, unfortunately, the movie industry is just another Corporation. And I’m not cut out for that corporate world. I’m more of an entrepreneur. So then I went back to building technology platforms in my own companies and in licensing them back and partnering with big media organizations. So you know, I have a lot of listeners that they think that social media is daunting, man. They’re like, you know what, I’ll run some Pay Per Click ads, I’ll do some traditional marketing. What are some things that they can do to kind of get going a little bit? You know, I feel like it’s really easy to spend a million dollars and social media marketing and not really get a lot of traction. So kind of two separate questions there. One, how does somebody get started to once they get kind of a budget, how do they know that their dollars are going to
Like something that’s going to benefit some, something’s going to have an ROI attached to it. So the best place to start is doing research, researching your competitors, researching other people that have been successful in the space and get a fundamental understanding of what’s driving their success. So we do this on all aspects of it. And we still do it today, I’ve been in social media since 2005, back to Friendster, and MySpace, and we’re still learning constantly, every day, we don’t ever stop. So organic, you know, social, you can learn by looking at people’s accounts, seeing what’s working, what’s not working, identify format, structures, tonality, you know, cadence, all of that, and see how it can be duplicated for your message, your content, the paid side. Fortunately, there’s been a lot of changes over the past few years, with everything that happened with Cambridge analytical, and the transparency that these platforms feel responsible for, and kind of pressured to by the government. So what that means is, Facebook has a Facebook ad library, you can go in and type any company and research that active ads that they’re currently running, you can even click on the links and see the landing pages, you can buy the products and go through the post email sequences and all that. LinkedIn has a similar platform for LinkedIn ads, one of the tools that I do is every ad that gets popped up into my feed, I engage with it. So the algorithm serves me more ads, so that I can keep seeing what people are doing. But the beauty of these platforms, especially when you talk about paid media, it’s attribution based like, unless you’re doing an offline sale, which you can still attribute back it’s a little bit more challenging. But there’s platforms out there like a wicked reports and things like that they can pipe right back into your CRM. But most people I would say are probably doing some type of online transaction is like you can track that you can see for every dollar that you spend, you get X number of dollars in return. So you don’t need to spend, you know, start off spending a million dollars, you can start spending small to see how you can prove it out, see if you’re having success, and you’re driving that conversion. And then scale from there. Now one of the things that and why I like platforms like the Facebook ad library and the LinkedIn ads, and studying other people’s ads is advertising doesn’t just come down to the creative that you’re putting in front of people. It also comes down to what is the landing page that you’re sending to them? What is the post follow up cadence? What is your retargeting strategy, all these fall into place in terms of really maximizing every dollar you spend. Because I see a lot of people burn a lot of cash, because they’re starting with just ads, and then they’re throwing it to a landing page. It’s not optimized, or they don’t have a retargeting campaign, or they don’t have like a way to really follow up or optimize that process. And then it falls flat. It was one of the mistakes that I made early on is you think you just put something in front of people and they automatically buy. But it doesn’t really work that way. There’s a lot of detail that goes into it. But to circle back to the original question, is it daunting? Sure. It is daunting, but it’s like anything that you want to get good at is like, if you feel overwhelmed, that’s a sign that you’re on the right path, I still get overwhelmed sometimes in this business as I’m learning. But you just take it one step at a time. It’s just like, the first step is just study what other people are doing, use those references to guide you on what to do and what not to do. Because those people have come before you in probably spent a ton of money figuring this out. And then you can leverage that expertise. They’ve kind of spent to apply it to your brand. Yeah, and I love this idea of not reinventing the wheel kind of going out there seeing what’s out there. A lot of my listeners, they’re freaking busy man. And a lot of them are they’re entrepreneurs. So they’re not really and myself included. I’m not really an expert at anything, I’m just kind of good at a lot of different things. And I have I hire experts, that’s what I do. But somebody that doesn’t have necessarily the resources to hire somebody, I don’t know, do you recommend that they kind of get into the nuts and bolts of this? Or is it like, hey, maybe you hold off until you have the resources because it feels like there’s just so much to it. Even the terminology that you toss around is super casual. A lot of my listeners aren’t going to really understand what those things are. Is this a field of social media field? Where it’s complicated to the extent that you really need an expert? Yes and no. I mean, listen, and I’m sure you gain this from your experience and entrepreneurs. You don’t need to be an expert, but you need to be know enough to be dangerous. So it’s like to me, I’ve seen people being burned by hiring experts. I’ve been burned by hiring.
It’s really knowing at least the right questions to ask. That’s what
You can get knowledge for free on YouTube or you can read books like our books or things of that nature. Do you have to get into the nuts and bolts to it, you don’t have to, it just depends on kind of what stage you’re at, I think it’s beneficial to dig in, if you can just again, so that you can at least ask the right questions. But it also depends on the type of business that you’re in. Like, we advise a lot of businesses, we work with pre revenue companies all the way up to 25 billion in annual revenue. And those pre revenue companies are those entrepreneurs that are just starting out, you know, if they’re a consultants, if they’re a service based business, if they’re a coach, or something like that, well, then we can do things to kind of just get in front of the right people, whether that’s cold email outreach, or LinkedIn, or maybe we get ourselves in some podcasts or things like that. So you can kind of jumpstart the revenue, so that you have money to then invest into a specific expert. Now, these things do require a certain level of knowledge and expertise. That’s not to say that I haven’t seen people like their first ad, they’re profitable. For some people, I’ve seen that they tried to run ads for two or three years, and it’s not profitable. Each business is is a little bit unique, and different. But, you know, at a high level, least know the basics of how these systems work. like to give you a funny example is when they put Mark Zuckerberg in front of things, either Congress or the Senate, they didn’t even know Facebook’s business model. They didn’t even know that Facebook is supported by advertising. Like, you can’t go into situations like that with such little knowledge or expertise, because that’s how you get burned. Yeah, 100%. And that’s the thing is that, you know, entrepreneurs, a lot of times they start with a specialty, right? They’re a home builder, or design or something. And they have to learn how to create a business. And I always say that I’m glad I didn’t understand or know beforehand what it was gonna take. Because if I did, I wouldn’t have done it. I was on the same way. Even today, I just start things I have no idea what I’m really getting into, I kind of have a vision and it turns out, as he said, be completely different. And we really knew we would never do it because it’s Yeah, it’s difficult. But you know, you bring up an interesting point for like, some of those people that are like homebuilders or, or just I mean, I did this in my business, one of the easiest ways to grow your business, if you’re not like selling t shirts, or like CPG products, if you’re going after like kind of clients and things like that is fine, like strategic partners that can introduce you like a I found that, of course, my career was that I would find like super connectors, like I don’t like networking, I frankly hate the term networking, because I think it has negative connotations to it. And I’m an introvert. So I would expend all of my energy into a few select people like one or two people that I just knew were super connected. And if I could find a way to provide value to them, or to strike some type of partnership, they open up the doors to so many potential clients and businesses. So if people are in that type of client service, or consulting business, like that’s an easy way that you don’t have to leverage, you know, social media or social media ads to get started, build your profitability, build your revenue stream, and then go back and reinvest in it. So kind of along those same lines, let’s take the example of like a home service business, you will be what it may h HVAC, plumbing, Pest Control landscape, whatever window washing, there’s some definitely some opportunity in social media for those types of businesses. What are your thoughts just off the cuff regarding using influencers for that type of thing versus a paid ad? Yeah, so for that type of business, would I use influencers? Yes, but not the influencer, or the term that you think of? So I would focus on, you know, who is the top real estate agent in the market? Who is, you know, on the government Council, or if you’re a plumber, who does floor remodeling, or if you do flooring modeling, who installs pools, things like that, that are not your typical influencers. And it’s not about online influence. It’s more about offline influence, that you can create strategic partnerships or relationships with to really get into those clients that way. Now, if you were to do some paid advertising, I would primarily focus on like paid search, and maybe even some Yelp advertising, social media advertising for those businesses. It can work, but that’s a little bit more advanced. And the reason I say it’s more advanced is there’s a big distinction between cold traffic and warm traffic. So cold traffic is social media, you’re pushing things are not searching for your product or service. They’re just scrolling through their feeds, and you’re
pushing an ad to them versus warm traffic is like Yelp or Google, people are actually searching for what you have to offer. So they’re actually looking for that, thus, they’re a warmer audience. Now, there’s obviously pros and cons to both. Warm traffic is typically far more expensive. So you’re gonna pay a higher cost, right click a higher cost per lead, because they know that it’s warm traffic. And because there’s competition directly for those keyword terms, social traffic is, again, you’re pushing, so it’s not warm. But it typically is lower cost in terms of that cost per click, but the conversion rate may not be as high. So typically, if you’re a business, just getting into like, especially a local business, step one I was I would just, you know, create as many of those influencer relationships and again, redefining influencer, in this case of doesn’t have to be an online influencer, like a tick tock star, somebody that has connections and already works with all the clients you have. And then to go after those warm traffic sources pay per click advertising on the search engines, and also places like Yelp. Is there any space anymore for organic traction and social? I feel like Instagrams so loud? And I mean, listen, it’s always been hard. It’s harder now, because there’s just more content. And because there’s more content, you know, there’s 3.9 6 billion people on social media. And amongst those people, not everyone’s producing content every day, but there’s 100 billion messages sent out into the world every single day through these platforms. So the algorithms have to prioritize what content to see to people, because if any of us open any social app, right now, there’s probably 1000 pieces of content, the algorithms can push to us, because of all the people we follow in the content we’ve engaged with. Now, obviously, if you open up an app, I can’t send you 1000 pieces. As soon as you open it up, you get overwhelmed, and you close it. So it has to determine, okay, what are the top 15 out of this 1000 that I believe is going to keep this person on this platform longer? Because that’s how they make money, right? make money by serving attention serve more ads, the longer you stay on the platform. So when it chooses those 15 pieces of content is under that premise of what is the content that we’re seeing from an analytical perspective, that’s holding attention for as long as possible. So that means 985 out of 1000 posts are getting deep prioritize most likely not going to make it to you. So when people talk about organic being difficult, yeah, it’s difficult because of that. But if you understand the principles, and there’s only two things you have to master, it isn’t easy. But it’s simple. Number one, are you stopping the scroll? are you grabbing that attention? Because if you don’t, if you don’t stop the scroll, the algorithm first sees that right away, and they’re like we’re suppressing the reach on this. But number two, once you stop the scroll, how long are you holding that attention for? And the story you’re telling? If you do those two things, the algorithms will love you. And you’ll get reach. Now the problem that people run into is they’re they’re listening to and using guidance and tactics that were designed 567 in some cases, 10 years ago, when there’s less people on the platform, right? So advice, like frequency is everything post as many times as you can. hashtags are key all it’s a quality over quantity game. Because if you’re just posting and using hashtags, and your content is not grabbing attention and holding attention, you’re actually training the algorithm that you’re not a good content creator. And this is going to make it harder and harder to get that reach. It’s not to say that if you’ve been doing that, that you can’t get out of that, you know, sandbox, that penalty box, you can, but it’s there’s just so much misinformation. And there’s such little strategy that goes into it. When again, it’s not easy, but it’s simple. You just mastered those two principles, and you will succeed no matter what platform you’re going out there for. So would you say that for somebody that’s just trying to get some traction on social media, maybe just started their company, Instagram page or profile? That it’s a mistake to go just quantity off the bat? Are you suggesting that they be more deliberate and maybe post only, I don’t know, once a week, in sake of quality? Well, it’s two things. It’s definitely quality over quantity. But quality is kind of a difficult term. Because some people will think quality is like production value and fancy cameras and lighting. It’s not we’re talking about quality is playing those two principles are grabbing attention and holding that attention. So for us 100% I’d rather see somebody spend a week or two weeks or even three weeks on a single post, and just really analyze and research other content creators determine what’s working, what’s not working, and then apply that philosophy to a single piece of content. And that doesn’t mean that you have to spend a lot of money producing
You can do it on your iPhone, like I know people that create videos on their iPhone that go viral and learn from it, the most important thing is are you learning. Because if you’re just whether you’re posting 10 pieces of content a week, or one, if you’re not measuring the results, and seeing if your hypothesis held true, and then using those learnings for the next test, then you’re never going to grow. So that’s kind of the most important thing. Like if you can post, you can create 10 pieces of content, and you’re really learning and you’re researching and iterating thing great. But again, I’d rather you spend more time on one, if you’re not going through that extensive process, than to just churn out content for the sake of turning it out. I read one of Gary Vaynerchuk, early books, I think it was something like Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook or something the concept was for businesses don’t always be asking for something, right? Give value, give value, give value, give value, then ask for something. Do you agree with that kind of basic principle? I do. I would like to recontextualize? A little bit is to me, yes. And I talk a bit about providing value. Put To me, it’s what is the problem that you’re solving? what problem are you solving for the person and that’s a form of value. But to me is value I think, can be a vague term and that some people can misinterpret. Like what value really means. And again, I use the word a lot. And I’m a huge believer in providing value, but to recontextualize it as like, what is the the problem that we’re solving for somebody because if you’re solving and I challenge anybody listening to this, is just think about the thing that keeps you up at night. And this can be personal or professional, the thing that stresses you out more than anything, and then just imagine, I come to you and say, Hey, I know you’re experiencing this huge problem. And I know it’s really painful, I would love to solve it for you. Would you allow me to do that? Like, what are you going to say? Who doesn’t want their greatest problem solved. So that’s where it’s like, you know, I don’t like selling I personally don’t like selling. And I think that that’s where typically it goes wrong as people are trying to focus on the sale instead of what is the problem that we’re solving for this individual. I love the way you think about that. And entrepreneurs, we get that, right, because that’s what our entire business was probably created around, right? We wanted to solve a problem or provide a convenience or, you know, build value with our business. And I think that’s a great way for businesses to kind of reconsider their social media strategy, myself included, sometimes we’re just like, hey, let’s just get something out there. But if we’re not helping somebody solve a problem, it doesn’t sound like we’re building a whole lot of value with what we’re, you know, with that content that we’re producing 100%. And just to take it a step further, one of the biggest mistakes people make in terms of creating this content, whether it’s paid or organic, is they they may be actually solving a problem, but they’re solving the wrong problem. Or at least leading with the wrong problem. Because there’s a big difference between needs and wants, what the consumer needs may not be what they want. And you have to really lead with what they want. So to give you an example, is my first book 1 million followers, I am leading what the consumer wants, they want to figure out how they can generate a lot of followers how they can generate the social audience. But what I know they need is they need to understand what testing is about research that we just talked about what hook points are, what strategic partnerships are, how the value of a paid advertising platform, how to test content. But if I lead with any of those, I probably would not have sold as many books, that’s kind of boring. It’s not what people want to hear right now. But if you start with, hey, if you really want followers, I can show you the way, but you need to learn these other things in order to master that. So I am still providing what I know the consumer needs, but I’m not leading with it. And that’s where a lot of entrepreneurs and consumer facing products and brands that we work with are often struggling to scale is they’re tapping into a core audience that’s already bought in. But as we all know, like scale is going after the general audience. And that’s where we have to reposition and recontextualize the message to bring them to the path that you know they need to have. But if you lead it oftentimes really causes issues. Yeah. And I know I’m on board 100% and I wanted to switch gears for just a second before I do that. What do you say to people that are like, Well, isn’t that a bait and switch? Aren’t we talking about like leading with something and then you know, providing something else now because it’s solving what they want? It’s saying like in my case, okay, you want
followers that I need to teach you these five things. So it’s not a bait and switch at all because we’re delivering on what they came for. We’re just saying in order to deliver that you need to do these things. Now, if those things that you’re saying that they need, you don’t correlate to the result that they came in from, then yes, that’s bait and switch. But it’s definitely not like to give you another example, is like, let’s just say, you have a heart attack, and you go into the doctor. And he’s, you know, says, okay, we really, you really need to kind of relax yourself, you’re under too much stress and anxiety. And that individual has always had a huge negative connotation towards meditation, he’s like, I’m never gonna do meditation, I don’t believe in it or anything. And this guy goes into the doctor, and you know, he, he basically almost dies. And the doctor saying, Listen, if you do not relax yourself, you are going to die. And he’s like, okay, Doctor, I will do whatever I have to do. And then the doctor prescribes, will you need to start meditating every day, I guarantee you, that person is going to be far more receptive to meditation than they ever were. Because it’s fulfilling a specific, you know, desire to stay alive. But the doctor saying you need to do this. But if the doctor led before a heart attack and said, You need to meditate and the guy hates meditation, he’s probably not going to be, you know, receptive to it. Great. Yeah, no, makes 100% sense there. So I read something that said that Tick Tock was the number one downloaded app last year in 2020. I was surprised a little bit by that. I want to get your thoughts about Tick tock, and I wanted to get your thoughts also in the context. So your overall thoughts? And then also in the context for entrepreneurs, is there room for businesses on Tick Tock?
Yeah, there definitely is. I mean, again, it starts back to the thing that I mentioned early on is doing the research, finding the references, like see how a doctor uses Tick Tock or Gary Vee uses Tick Tock or somebody else that’s doing it successful and unsuccessfully. So can it be used for that? Yes, does that mean it’s a necessary component, or it’s the right fit for your business? Not necessarily, like I choose not to spend a lot of time on Tick tock, it’s not because there isn’t value there. It’s not that you can’t be successful. But we really focus on one platform at a time to get really good at it. And, you know, with any of these platforms, there’s pros and cons to it. So you’ve got to really understand why you’re choosing a platform and not just to choose it, because it’s the number one downloaded app, or because they have all these users because there’s other platforms, there’s LinkedIn, there’s YouTube, there’s Facebook, there’s Instagram, there’s Twitter, all of these have a lot of users on it, all of them have value in some way, shape, or form. So to me, it’s like really understanding the consumption behavior of how each of the consumers use the platform, what actually it takes to produce content for these platforms, because each platform takes a specific type of content production and strategy to it. So I kind of look at it from that perspective, I don’t look at it as like a black and white answer. And I certainly wouldn’t make a determination of Oh, tick tock is the number one downloaded app last year. So that means I have to be on it. Because that’s not the right decision, or the right data point to make a decision to go into it. I’m actually curious about this statement that you said that you guys focus on one platform at a time, right? As businesses, we feel like, hey, right, when we open our doors, we need a Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, you know, LinkedIn, like everything that we can get our hands on. Personally, I don’t buy into that. Because then how would you get good at any one of them? Now is that to say that you can’t find use cases of people that are good at all platforms? No, I can tell you some people right away that I’ve seen, be good at them. But it is hard to do that, especially if you’re just getting into into social media. And to me, it’s like, let’s just focus on one that we believe is the right for our goals. And let’s hit the ceiling with it. Let’s figure it out and get really good at it. And then once we’re really good at then we can move to the next one, and do the same thing. And then keep going from there. But going back to what we were talking about with the algorithms, the world that we live in today, it’s very difficult to get good, just that one platform, let alone trying to manage five at the same time. I just warn people against that. So I’ve heard that kind of newer platforms, you can get a little traction more easily than more developed platforms. And I think that’s why I’ve heard a little bit about people focusing on LinkedIn focusing on
Tick Tock versus a Facebook or Instagram? Do you buy into that? Should that go into someone’s consideration when deciding which platform they should start with? Is what you’re saying true? Yeah, you can. If you do it, right, it doesn’t mean because you get on a platform early mean, you’re going to win. Because there’s plenty of people that were on Facebook, Instagram, Tik, Tok, YouTube, LinkedIn early on, maybe the first few users and there, they didn’t have success. So there’s no guarantee in that. My personal philosophy is I’d rather be late. I’d rather be late, let the platform actually prove itself as a mature platform. let other people prove out what works and what doesn’t work. And then, you know, determine Okay, is this the right fit? Do I want to go in this direction. But it’s interesting, you bring up like LinkedIn and tick tock like people think they’re new platforms, they didn’t have around for a long time, especially Tick Tock. It was used to be musically it’s, I don’t know exactly how long but it’s been at least six or seven years, maybe even longer, that it’s been out. But that’s my personal philosophy. I mean, all of this is just my personal philosophies, like every person has to make the right decision for them. And there’s not one way to be successful in any aspect of this. Yeah. And I think when I say new, I feel like those platforms just aren’t as noisy. They’re still noisy, but not like Instagram, right? It feels a little easier to grab some traction on those. But I agree 100%, that, that shouldn’t be the determining characteristic, right? a business owner entrepreneur has to say, Okay, well, this platform actually matches the content we want to make, which matches what we’re trying to do. Yeah. And I think that also is really defining what is traction mean for you? Because like, our core formula, of developing, you know, scale for our clients is, it’s called a hook point formula. And there’s three components. It’s one, how can you grab attention? Because if you don’t grab attention, get lost in the noise. Number two, how you hold attention, because if you grab attention, it has no substance, it doesn’t mean anything. But third, and just as important as monetizing attention, how does it play to the overall business and goals? So? Sure, could it be easier to go on Tick tock, and get 100,000? Or a million views, then potentially Instagram? Yeah, but what does that mean? Does that drive anything for your core business? Now? Maybe it doesn’t, that’s great. But that’s a question that you have to ask yourself is attention for the sake of tension or traction for the sake of traction? doesn’t necessarily mean you’re actually driving the business results that you’re going after?
Yeah, and so are you suggesting that business owners really need to kind of create objectives before, you know, attempting to go after one of these platforms like, Hey, this is kind of our strategies, these are the things we’re trying to accomplish. And from there, start making decisions about social media 100%, like, I will not work with a client until we set a strategy, you know, we start with our clients. So it was spending about 30 to 45 days of us mapping out a key strategy for them of what is the right platform? What is the right strategy? Where should we go? How should we tackle this? What is the progression of all that? Because otherwise, you’re just jumping in and you don’t even know what success looks like, or how to get success or how to measure it. And that’s where people get lost. That’s where people get frustrated and feel like, they’re not fulfilling their goals are getting lost in the noise. And it was interesting, you can, you know, and I know people that have millions of followers that don’t have a lot of revenue, success and brand scalability and unknown people with 10s of 1000s of followers that are making millions of dollars a year. It just, it really just comes down to the right approach specific for your goals for your business for your customer base and designing for that.
Yeah, I love it. Man, I wish I had another couple of hours to discuss this very interesting stuff. And my listeners, they don’t hear a lot about this. I don’t have a lot of you know, people with this level of digital market expertise on as much as I should. And so just wanted to thank you, Brandon, where can people find out more about you? Where can they download your books and just kind of learn about all the great things that you’re up to? Yeah, if they want to learn about the work that we do with clients and our process or even just download a deck presentation that walks through it, they can go to hook point com, I would recommend between the two of my books is starting with the hook point book because it really sets the foundation for everything that we talked about. And they can go to book that hook point. com. Also, both of my books are on Amazon. But if you just go to that URL, you get some additional add ons and bonuses that I obviously can’t deliver through the Amazon platform. Great. Love it. Well, thanks for joining us today, Brendon. Best of luck in the future man. Yeah, thanks for having me.
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