On today’s episode, Allan welcomes financial planning experts Austin Peterson and Landon Mance, who also host “Tycoons of Small Biz Podcast.” Creating a financial plan with diversification is essential for entrepreneurs and it is something entrepreneurs rarely think about. Leaders must focus on the future of their business and map out a plan to get there.
Allan has started and grown several multi million dollar businesses, his mission is to help you do the same. Welcome to the Business Growth Pod, building the future one entrepreneur at a time.
Is it all part of the plan together and is everything working together? Right, just like you wouldn’t set out to build a house without having an architect for first draw the plans. were drawing those plans and making sure that everything fits together and you’ve got the right type of wood holding up and you know, the right structure for the trusses and all that kind of stuff. We’re essentially doing that same thing for your financial plan, we’re going to stress testing, we’re going to make sure that the tax guy and the legal guy are all working with us to make sure that, you know, you’re not just trying to save taxes, but you’re actually saving taxes where appropriate, but putting yourself on the right path to achieve your overall financial goals.
Hey, everyone, welcome to the show. I’m Allan. I’m a family man and attorney and an entrepreneur. Each week, we provide resources and advice to help build your business. Are you ready? Then let’s go.
Everyone, welcome to the show today. This is the Business Growth Pod with Allan Draper. That’s me, right? If you guys liked this podcast, make sure to leave me review whatever platform that you listen to it on, make sure to leave me a review and share it with your friends. What we’re trying to do is a couple of things. First of all, we’re trying to put some information out there to help people start and grow their companies. And we’re also trying to get some motivation, right? When you’re starting a business is such a big endeavor that, you know, I’m trying to put something out there that gives you a little, you know, motivation to take the next step. So I’m really excited about my guest today. I’ve got two of them. So I’ve got Austin Peterson and Landon Mance with me today. They have a great show. It’s called the Tycoons of Small Business. I’ve been on it a couple of times. And yeah, they’re always producing great information. These guys, their financial planners, they know a lot about investments. They’re entrepreneurs. So I’m really excited to have them. Welcome to the show, guys. Thanks for having us. Thanks, Allan. So tell me a little bit more about what you guys do. Tell me a little bit more about the tycoons of small business why you started it. Let’s just say I just kind of want to get your thoughts on. Anything you want to tell me. Landon, you want to take that one? Age before beauty.
He finally got one in Allan.
Yeah, so I mean, just a little bit of background on why we got it started. So we started our podcast, I couldn’t do small biz on Cinco de Mayo 2020. So Oh, well, if you look back, you know, that’s, that’s right after the pandemic kit, it’s something we’ve been talking about for a while Landon had really been trying to twist my arm to do it. But the whole point of doing this podcast is to highlight a new small business owner every week. So
yeah, just gives them a platform to talk about their business, what they do, give advice to the entrepreneurial community, you know, whatever we can do to kind of prop up the entrepreneurial community, we, you know, I think there’s some statistics that I actually just recently read that talk about how business growth and business startup in America is actually on the decline, we’ve gotten leads that are just kind of out there, and they’re taking over the world, so to speak, but 99% of the people in our country are still employed by a small business. And we just need to do everything we can to push these up. You know, Facebook, doesn’t need more advertising, Netflix, Amazon, you know, they don’t need any more help, is the small business, the guy down the street who’s building a great construction or real estate development company or a pest control company or plumbing company, you know, that really need an opportunity to get their story out. That’s why we, we started the podcast. Yeah, I love that. You know, it’s funny as I was on the fun with undisclosed bank just a couple of hours ago. And I told the lender, I told him, like, Hey, you guys really don’t like small businesses. You know, you don’t like entrepreneurs, because of, you know, if you’re applying for a loan, and you’re a W two employee, you know, you have certain things that you have to provide. And it’s a lot less than if you’re a business owner. And it kind of hit me as I was telling him that I’m like, why is that? I was explaining to him like, I have a lot more control over my job than, you know, somebody that’s a W two employee, right, like, but anyway, I just thought that that was interesting that a bank. I used to think that banks like they’re the reason why entrepreneurs can accomplish things and you know, they’re, you know, cheering
Aside from the sideline in is just not the case. They’re just making things a lot harder than, you know, I think that it needs to be and I get it, some of that’s coming from COVID. And what’s happened over the last year or so. But yeah, just kind of interesting how important the small business owner is. And that’s the thing you hear in it’s kind of cliche, like the backbone of America, right? The backbones planning partners, right. And I don’t know what that has anything to do with entrepreneurship. But it’s true, right? Like, all these people are working for small businesses. And I think that we think that most people are working for large corporations. And that’s just not the case. And I don’t have any statistics. But doesn’t that sound true like that most jobs are created by small business? Yeah, that’s definitely the case. And you know, just real quick, I’ll respond to, you know, your banking comment. I mean, I think the banks are playing the numbers, right. I mean, there’s an awful lot of failure in small business, right? So you know, they’re gonna play their numbers. But there are some some pretty good community banks out there that do a good job of lending to small business, they understand it, they dig in, they work with them. It’s not easy. It’s still not easy, right? I mean, you got to have good books, you got to be able to show what it is that, that you need, what your plan is, but not all banks certainly understand the importance of working with small business. And then the other thing that you mentioned is, you know, backbone planning partners. That’s the name of our financial planning practice. And you’re right, that’s exactly why we named it backbone planning partners is because we serve the backbone of the American economy, the small business owner. And the second connotation, obviously, is backbone connotes integrity, and Landon. And I feel it’s important to make sure that we’re serving our clients with integrity and doing everything we can to help them achieve their goals. I love that land. And tell me a little bit about backbone planning partners. Tell, tell us a little bit about what you do. And how you want help entrepreneurs. Yeah, one thing actually, I’ll just point out in our logo, actually, which is just recently been updated. Our logo is actually two hands, propping up a small building, and then it says Small Biz Inc, you know, right above it. So not only is that kind of our purpose and our mission with our podcast, but it, it’s actually in our logo as well. So yeah, that’s what we do. And we certainly believe wholeheartedly in it. So, backbone planning partners is a new marketing name for Austin and I so I used to operate as your future planning partners. Austin operated as backbone, financial, Austin, I’ve been working closely serving clients together for a couple years. And then we formalized our partnership just earlier this year. And that’s where kind of backbone planning partners was born, we took the backbone from his name and the planning partners for mine. And there we go. So what we do is Austin, I focus exclusively when it comes to new clients, on serving private business owners, and kind of our sweet spot where we typically are able to provide the most value as a business owner that is doing somewhere between about five to 50 million of revenue, that’s kind of a typical client for us. And we are a very non traditional Wealth Management financial planning firm, we lead with planning, and we have a process a very defined structured process that we follow with every single one of our new and current clients. But, you know, some of the key things that we’re focusing on is helping business owners to understand that if at some point in the future, whether it’s 12 or 24 months, or it’s 10 years down the road, if they do want to attempt to successfully sell or transition their business, then there are certain things that they need to put in place to give themselves the best chance at doing that. So we focused a lot on that. So kind of the succession and exit planning aspect of working with the business owner. And then inside the business, we’re having a lot of different conversations around, you know, maybe the owners got a key executive or a key executive team and their business is really ramping up and they want to make sure that you know, those people are really locked in and invested, you know, in the business. So we help them to design plans and implement those plans so that their key people stick around or maybe they want to incentivize new people from outside the firm to come in. We’re helping a couple of client of ours who are a couple of brothers that own a successful construction company, one of the brothers is getting out. So we’re helping them to design and
implement a plan to, you know, keep the family harmony, and also, you know, successfully get the brother out of the business, and then also helping the other two brothers to really stay focused on, you know, driving the business forward and accomplish all the things that they want to accomplish moving forward. And then. And then on the more traditional side, we do all of the personal, you know, financial planning, a big focus on estate planning, and what we call financial independence, which is just, you know, helping our business owner clients get to a point where they, they’re working, because they want to, not because they, they have to. And that’s a really important thing to mention, because when a business owner is trying to sell their business or starting to think about it, if they’re already financially independent with the stuff that they’ve done outside the business, it just puts him in a really strong position to go out to market and attempt to sell their business because they’re not going to be dependent on those proceeds to support their lifestyle moving forward. Yeah, it’s funny, because entrepreneurs spend a lot of time thinking about their business, and different aspects of their business, how to grow their business, personnel, operations, things like that. But that’s about it professionally, and I’m, you know, speaking from experience, we don’t spend a lot of time focusing on other investments. I’m having a cryptocurrency, and I just have it kind of set up on, you know, automatic purchase or whatever. And if I hear about a stock, I like obeisance, but I don’t really have a plan. And I think that’s really common, because I think there’s a couple of reasons. One reason is we’re super busy. If we’re thinking about money, we’re thinking about our business, right? how that money ties into our business. The other thing is, a lot of us are thinking, you know, I don’t need a retirement plan. I don’t need any other financial investments or tools, because I have my business. Right? And so what do you say in response to something like that, hey, I have a business that’s worth 510 15 $20 million?
Um, good. You know, what do you tell that type of entrepreneur? I’ll jump in for a second. And then Austin will have some thoughts as well. But back to your point, Alan, about the banks, you know, that private capital markets where we all operate in this small business space are pretty dang inefficient, right? When you get into big corporate finance with public companies, for them to get loans for them to raise money for them to buy back their stock, it’s just a simple transaction for them, right, they can do that all day long. But in the private capital, markets, capital is much more difficult to come across. And that’s because in our small businesses, we don’t act in feel and operate like the bigger businesses. And what that really means is that we’re just, we’re a lot more risky, right in the eyes of the bank. So that is why it’s so much more difficult. But you know, what we would say to that owner is, you know, that’s great. But the reality is, and this statistic will be proven over and over and over with anybody that you will talk to, approximately 70% of businesses that actually get listed, and attempt to sell, do not successfully sell on the terms that they are seeking. And that’s for a myriad of different reasons. And so we just kind of try to help them to understand that. And I actually wrote an article last year, the year before, and it basically said that it’s okay to shut down your business, right? If you plan for that, and you save outside of your business, and you build your business, you build wealth outside of your business, you know, shutting your business down and closing the doors, like, that’s okay. But if that’s what’s going to happen, let’s have a plan for that, so that you can do that successfully on your terms. And it’s communicated to everybody because the reality is, that is what happens with a lot of businesses, right? The owner gets sick or disabled, divorced, there’s a partner dispute an illness like whatever happens. That is why most businesses actually transact Alan is because there’s an unforeseen event that takes place and they’re forced, you know, usually through like a fire sale to try to sell their business to somebody. Yeah, that’s crazy. Because that’s not where entrepreneurs think when they start their business, they never think that that’s how it’s going to end. And it sounds kind of like retiring in a way, right? or leaving a job, how it’s just like, you know, what am I taking with me? And in some cases, it sounds like they’re not taking much, right? But what an entrepreneur starts with these ideas of Granger you know,
Huge exits. And I think you’re right. Like, I think you’re mitigating some risk by investing in some other things throughout the process, not just, you know, you might not get the returns that you do from a small business through other investment tools. But it does mitigate that risk. Yeah. So I mean, like Landon said, the transactions just don’t happen much of the time, there’s a high percentage of transactions that just either don’t happen, or they’re not nearly as much as they thought they were going to be. So first of all, most business owners overestimate what their businesses are worth. Right. And so then they and they find out that they’re in trouble because they can’t sell for as much as they thought. And on top of that, they underestimate what they need to be able to live comfortably the rest of their life in a lump sum amount, right. And then the last thing that I would mention is probably one of the most basic if not the most basic financial planning concepts. And that’s diversification. Right, so you mentioned cryptocurrency? My guess is you probably don’t have all of your money in cryptocurrency, first of all, but even if you did, you don’t have it all. In Bitcoin, you probably have some in Dogecoin and Ethereum, and you know, all these different, you know, types of cryptocurrency, they’re out there, because you understand that betting on one horse is not the smart thing to do, right? Over the last decade, if you bet on the one Tesla horse, you’d be pretty darn happy. Right? Right. But the risk is still extremely high, even with a company like Tesla. And I understand from an entrepreneur standpoint, you want to bet on yourself. And we love watching entrepreneurs bet on themselves. And the rate of return, like you mentioned can be tremendous. But that diversification, planning for some of the things that land and talked about, it’s so super important. You know, I go back to Stephen Covey begin with the end in mind, let’s put together a plan that gets you there, whether you’re able to sell your business or not. And if you’re able to sell it for the 10, or 20 million or 30 million that you’re hoping to get great, then guess what, you’ve got a fantastic future in retirement, you created a legacy for your family, all those kinds of things that are great, but put yourself in the best possible position for negotiating when it’s time to sell your business. So that you don’t need that money. And you can say Yay, or nay rather than, Oh, my gosh, I need that money because I have to retire now, or I got a divorce, or I’ve got cancer or, you know, a myriad of things that can actually have well, and that’s such a huge thing, because the market determined so much of what a company is worth, right. Right now, in the pest control world, there are companies getting three and a half 4x, which is crazy right now, just historic numbers. But it works the other way, too. It could be a year where you’re running into a few things. And they’re historic lows. And so having that runway where you can you know what, you know, I’ve got some other funds set aside so that I can get through this divorce I can get through this death, I can get through this issue with my with a partner that’s leaving or whatever. And then hold on another five years, and then double, you know what your exit is? I think that’s huge. So walk me through the process, guys, what you know, what’s the first step an entrepreneur comes to you, a small business owner comes to you guys, what’s that first meeting? Like? What’s kind of the objective? Are you trying to figure out what you know, the personality type is risk tolerance, things like that with the entrepreneur.
So here’s kind of our initial process all try to whittle it down to just a minute or two explanation. But first time we meet with somebody pretty standard conversation in our industry, we’re going to pepper you with a lot of questions. The only difference is that we’re going to be peppering you with a lot of questions that
not many other wealth managers would be asking, because we’re going to be asking a lot of questions about the business a whole bunch. And then, after we’ve gathered all this information that we need, so we our first meeting is, you know, typically about an hour. And the last couple minutes of our meeting, we’re going to communicate to the person, what happens next. And from there, we’re going to take all the data that they’ve shared with us, we’re going to request some documentation to verify some of the stuff that they have provided to us. And then we’re going to put in anywhere from about two to four hours. And we’re going to put together an engagement proposal. And at our second meeting, we’re going to go over that engagement proposal and we are going to list out everything exactly what we are going to do for you
And then we’re going to quantify that value for you so that you can understand the true impact that that’s going to have on you, your family and your business. At the end of that second meeting, if we agree that it is a good fit, and usually, if we’re going to set up the second meeting typically is a good fit. And then we’re gonna make that decision at the end of the second meeting, not necessarily on the spot, of course, we give them as much time as they need to make a decision, because at this point, we want their business but we don’t need it, right. So it’s a little bit different approach that we take. And then if they decide to engage us, they’re going to pay us a flat fee to do all of the planning. And that is usually somewhere between a typical fee would be about 10 to 20,000, up front, and then we get to work. And we’re going to spend the next couple of months having a series of meetings and conversations with you, your key people and your key advisors. So that, I mean, we know everything that there is to know about somebody as much as they’re going to possibly share with us, we’re going to start building relationships with all their key people inside the company and outside. And typically, the main role that we’re going to take in that initial phase, is we’re going to be the captain, the quarterback, whatever you want to call it, and we’re gonna lasso in all their important people so that everybody is on the bus in the right seats, and we’re all driving in the same direction together. Because a lot of times, Alan, I think you kind of alluded this, entrepreneurs are setting up different accounts at different times with different advisors with different objectives. And there’s this huge lack of coordination amongst their stuff, financial stuff. So we’re helping to coordinate that to fill in the gaps to identify miss opportunities and just kind of get everything flowing in the right direction. So what’s the significance of getting it all together is I mean, we’re talking about how important diversity is in different assets and investments and stuff. So, you know, I got several different funds might use different banks, where I buy stocks and things like that. Why do we need it all centralized? What’s the purpose of that? Is that just to kind of see what’s out there, and make sure that risk tolerance is balanced and all of that? Yeah, it’s not really about it being centralized per se, right? Because many of our clients will leave those accounts in place. We’re not necessarily asking them to move accounts. It’s is it all part of the plan together, and is everything working together? Right, just like you wouldn’t set out to build a house without having an architect for first draw the plans. were drawing those plans and making sure that everything fits together, and you’ve got the right type of wood holding up and you know, the right structure for the trusses and all that kind of stuff. We’re essentially doing that same thing for your financial plan, we’re going to stress testing, we’re going to make sure that the tax guy and the legal guy are all working with us to make sure that, you know, you’re not just trying to save taxes, but you’re actually saving taxes where appropriate, but putting yourself on the right path to achieve your overall financial goals. And we can’t avoid taxes along the way. We want to defer them and avoid them as much as we can. But that can also be somewhat detrimental to where you get ready to transact later, and you’ve had a business that’s wildly successful. But from a tax standpoint, it doesn’t show that it’s wildly successful. Guess what, it’s time, it’s pretty hard to sell a business at that point when your EBITDA doesn’t show big numbers, right? Yeah, it’s funny, because the longer I’m in business, the more I realize a couple of things. One of those things is, before I do stuff, I start to ask professionals, right. I’m an attorney, but I don’t practice anymore. But I have, you know, four or five different attorneys that I regularly communicate with on different things. I have a CPA, we were talking about just recently with a gentleman that runs the operations for one of my companies, and we were talking about how we should transition whether we, you know, purchase vehicles or leased them. And my first, you know, recommendation to him was, hey, reach out to the CPA, see what he has to say. And so it sounds like you guys are kind of in that role, right as, as an entrepreneur is going along this path of building their business and making decisions. You guys are kind of involved in helping them make decisions about where to invest their money. Are you helping them decide, you know, hey, should I put this 100 grand back into my business or should I invest it elsewhere? You guys involved in that? Yeah, we definitely have those conversations on a regular basis with our business owners and you know, the other natya keyed in on this one, Landon talked about it, but we you know, we charge a fee for our services for our advice, much like an attorney.
Right, you’re used to practice law. And so we charge a fee for our advice. But when we do that, which is different than most financial advisors, because they’re looking to sell you an investment product or an insurance product, or manage your investments, and that’s how they get paid. And many of our business owners, we’re working with them for 10 or 15 years on transitioning some of their wealth from their business balance sheet to their personal balance sheet. But when they have no investments early on, that’s how we still profitably serve our clients and do so in an unbiased manner. Because they’re paying us a fee for our advice. And so there’s never a, you know, a question in your mind of, is he telling me to put this money here? Because he gets paid on it? Or is he telling me to put it here? Because it’s the best thing for me and my overall financial situation? Yeah, it’s kind of I think that’s a great strategy, because there’s, you’re not married to any investment strategy or fund or whatever, right? What type of performance what type of returns? Can somebody get an entrepreneur expect from investing in kind of these, you know, these, these different avenues that are outside of their business? Like, are you guys doing? What are the investment tools that we’re talking about? Are you guys telling people to go put everything in, you know, mutual funds, stocks, bonds? Are you telling by other businesses, you real estate all the above? Yeah, it’s definitely all of the above. So from a rate of return standpoint, it’s across the board, right? Because every one of our clients is a little bit different in their time horizon, their risk tolerance, but it truly is everything that you just mentioned, and more, right? I mean, we’re gonna help them look at a business. And we’re not, you know, necessarily m&a experts by any stretch, but we will help them evaluate a business and look at the opportunity that’s there, and make sure that we bring in the right team members to say, yeah, this is a good opportunity for you expand, or it’s an industry that’s adjacent to yours. And this makes good sense. So it’s not about again, selling them a particular investment, right, we do all of it. I mean, Landon, and I manage just shy of $100 million in investments overall for our clients. And so it’s not that we don’t do it, it’s just that it’s those are the vehicles sometimes that get our clients to that financial independence that they’re seeking. It’s not what we lead with.
And are you guys, if somebody says, Hey, I would actually like to invest in other types of businesses get into different industries or whatever? Are you guys in a position where you’re bringing potential deals like, hey, I’ve, you know, there’s this person that’s, you know, looking to sell at least a portion of their business? are you guys doing that type of thing? Or are they doing that on their own bringing the opportunity to you guys, and allowing you to analyze it a bit with them.
So I would say both, depending on the size of the company, if we’re looking at a company that’s doing a minimum of one to 2 million of eba, you know, aka profit, then yes, if they’re looking to bring in an investor, they’re looking to raise capital, they’re looking to do whatever, then we will absolutely, through a group through a colleague of ours, we can introduce them to parties that might be able to help with what they’re trying to accomplish. Now, if it’s a smaller business, you’ll maybe they’re doing one to 5 million of revenue, and maybe, you know, they’re doing at or below a million dollars of profitability, and they’re looking at a deal, you know, the role that Austin I are going to play in that situation, is, we’re going to just kind of help them to pump the brakes a little bit, because usually they’re trying to rush into something like that, because they’re in, and we’re gonna just, we’re gonna ask really good questions. And we’re going to arm them with really good questions to ask the seller, you know, if they’re attempting to acquire the business, so, you know, we’re not Business Brokers, we’re not m&a advisors. But what we are is really, really good at helping our clients to ask really good questions, because that usually leads them to the answers that they need in order to determine if something is a, you know, a red light, yellow light or a red light. I’m sorry, green light, yellow light or red light. Gotcha. So what are some mistakes that you guys see really common with beginning entrepreneurs in terms of investing? What are those entrepreneurs doing wrong? And how do they do better? Yeah, well, I’ll start out and I’ll just say something real quick. And then let’s, we’ll pass it to Austin Allen. I personally
I’ve seen a lot of people start businesses very successful and some not. And I think it really comes down to just having a game plan on how you are actually going to grow your business. And that does not have to be a 50 page document. I mean, it can be a one to three page document that addresses all of the important aspects of a business, you know, HR, finance, legal operations, you know, you know, there’s a few others, but how are you actually going to approach each aspects of those business, and then also understanding what the different roles are that you are going to be responsible for. And then putting, you know, in this plan that you’re putting together saying, okay, right now, as a new business owner, a new startup, I am currently wearing 16 different hats, right. And over the next 12 months, or 24, or 36 months, I would like to offload some of those hats that I’m wearing to other people, so that they can do that stuff. And I can focus more on the important stuff. So it’s, where are you right at this moment? You know, where do you want to be in 12 or 24 or 36 months? You know, what team needs to be in place? What revenue needs to be in place? How are you going to achieve those things, and then just getting that down on paper, so that you can track and measure the steps of your business, and most entrepreneurs just don’t do that. And some even very successful ones. Still don’t do that. But they’ve just kind of gotten to where they are by grid, by chance, by luck by determination, you know, whatever their circumstances. Gotcha. I’m kind of in that boat, you know, it’s now starting to finally get, you know, some more concrete ideas and plans in place. But when we first started,
you know, it’s we’re trying to keep the lights on, right. It’s tough to start to develop some of those plans and ideas when you’re just trying to keep your head above water. Yeah, I think it’s tough early on. But just to answer your question real quickly. I mean, I Landon touched on it a little bit, but what we see is not tracking the financials is very common. And if you don’t know your numbers, you don’t know whether or not you’re successful, right, you know, what’s going on in your business. And, you know, Landon talked about that short business plan, which I agree with 100%. But one thing that’s real simple and easy to do, that Landon and I have even recently done in our organization, is to just whiteboard what your org chart looks like today. And what you want it to look like in the next six months to five years, and then identify which one’s the next tire, then the next tire, then the next tire, what’s it going to cost you? How much revenue will that allow you to increase by by adding that person? And how much do you need to be able to increase by if you’re going to add that cost? You know, it’s a real simple thing. We literally did it on a whiteboard in the conference room, Libre Office in Las Vegas, snapped a picture of it when we were done and moved on, that allows us to kind of keep our own, you know, plan moving along with the growth of our practice. So it’s a real simple way to do things. And actually to add to that, I recently shared that in a Vistage meeting with one of the members of our Vistage group and I said, you know, a great way to actually help your employees visualize what the future is going to look like in this organization, is to get a big whiteboard, put tape on it for the org chart, as it stands, and then put the empty spots as to where it’s headed. And bring them in and show them this is the future of the organization. This is where we’re going. These are our next few key hires. And it may be promotion from within. And if you have a desire to do that, you can show me you got the experience and the skills to do that. You may be feeling this spot, but this is where we’re going. And that allows your employees to know they’ve got a leader who’s thoughtfully thinking about the future of their business and somebody that they can feel comfortable following. That’s such a great idea. Because usually, when a company’s laid out of quote, unquote, vision, it’s all about revenue, right? Or even bottom line or growth or whatever, but it’s, it’s not as applicable to your people. But if you put an org chart up there, and you’re like, Hey, you know, we’re gonna add this role and we’re gonna add actually this entire department, you know, we’re going to integrate, so that we’re not outsourcing, you know, this function or whatever. Man, I think that helps people get on board and one of the reasons that people
With a company is because they can see themselves having a future there. And with that, I think that worked sharks, I think that’s a great idea. And you can kind of start, you can kind of start dreaming a little bit like I’ve always wanted an internal designer, my own designer that at any moment, I could send something to, and but there would be a spot for that on the org chart, right? Like, hey, this is kind of the future and map it out with one of our companies. We’ve done something where we took like just a map of the United States. And like pinpointed where our offices were going to be in the future. And that it sounds like kind of this similar concept, but even better with people and the direction that you’re growing. Well, gentlemen, this has been awesome. Where can people find out more about what you guys are accomplishing get some more information about how you serve entrepreneurs? Yeah, so you can check us out on our podcast, which is a tycoon’s of small biz. Our website is backbone planning.com. And then, of course, we are both really active on LinkedIn, Landon, Mance and Austin Peterson. or shoot us an email Austin, I are hopping on zoom intro calls multiple times a week. And we love just like you do, Alan, you know, we love connecting and having conversations with people, sometimes absolutely nothing comes out of it. And sometimes it turns out to be a lifelong relationship. And both of those are okay, you know, because you’re not going to, you know, you’re not going to connect with everybody that you have a conversation with. But yeah, we love meeting people love learning about businesses, love learning about, you know, best practices when it comes to our own, you know, business, and we’d love to chat with anybody that wants to chat. Yeah, that’s awesome. And I love connecting with people. And I always say that nothing has come of it yet. Right? Because you don’t know when you connect with people, you know, something could happen 510 years down the road. I had texted somebody a year ago. And they texted me this morning asking me about a vendor that I use. And I didn’t even know who it was. But to them, they felt comfortable reaching out to me and getting my thoughts about this vendor. And so I had just kind of shrugged it off, I’d probably need to figure out who it was that texted me. But that’s the thing with connecting with people. And these are two guys that you want to have in your network, you know, so make sure to reach out to them. Thanks for joining me guys. This has been great. These are two entrepreneurs that really know their business. People that know about money are good people to have in your network. So anyway, thanks for joining me today guys. Glad you could join me. Thanks so much.
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