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In today’s episode, Allan welcomes Paul Minors. Paul is a well-known productivity expert. His passion is to educate entrepreneurs about productivity, business, and self-improvement. His blog gets over 100,000 visitors a month, where he shares advice on how anyone can be more effective with their time. Paul discusses how he has helped hundreds of businesses optimize their workflows, so they can scale and grow faster. In addition, Allan and Paul talk about creating systems and processes that can streamline productivity. For more information about Paul, visit his website at https://paulminors.com/ or on YouTube at Paul Minors – YouTube
Hey, everyone, welcome to the show. I’m All an. I’m a family man and attorney and an entrepreneur. Each week, we provide resources and advice to help build your business. Are you ready? Then let’s go.
Hey, everyone, Welcome to the Business Growth pod. I’m Allan Draper. You’re familiar with me by now. Thanks for listening to my podcast. By the way, I don’t say that enough. I, I appreciate the feedback that I get from my listeners I appreciate, you know, this, this platform. I don’t monetize it. You guys know I don’t. I don’t have advertisers. For me. It’s about making connections and putting something out there for entrepreneurs that are getting started, and trying to really scale their companies in the early years. That’s my passion. That’s something that I’m very good at. And thanks for enjoying the ride with me appreciate it. I’m excited for our guest today. Today, Paul Meiners is joining me Paul is a well known productivity expert. Check this out. His blog gets over 100,000 visitors a month, which is crazy. on his blog, or through his blog, he shares advice on how anyone can be more effective with their time and get more done. Paul has also helped over 410 businesses optimize a workflow so they can scale and grow faster. So I know that this is going to be an episode that is going to add extreme amounts of value to you as you’re in the process of starting up. So welcome to the show, Paul. Glad to have you. Thanks, Alan. Yeah, thanks for having me today.
So tell me a little bit about how you got into productivity and, and a little bit about your background.
Yeah, for me, productivity was something I really found an interest in when I was back when I was studying at university. So about 10 or 11 years ago. Now, for me, that was a time where, you know, you sort of left school, and when you start university or college and you call it in the States, you’re really sort of, on your own a little bit where it’s school, you know, you got your teacher chasing you and reminding you to do assignments and 10 up to class, at least here in New Zealand, anyway, nobody’s chasing you to do anything you’re really sort of on your own, you’ve really got to hold yourself accountable. And so there’s a period of time where I became naturally interested in productivity as I was suddenly, you know, a lot more in control of my time and had to had to really manage myself and make sure I was getting prepared for classes and get assignments in on time, things like that. And so I started experimenting with like, blocking out time on my calendar for planning the work that I needed to do, and just really making sure I could get everything done. So it was during that time, I kind of found this interest in productivity. But it’s sort of it became apparent to me that productivity isn’t just about getting stuff done. It’s actually like a skill set that really helps you to get more out of life in general. You know, it’s not just about doing your work effectively, productivity defined as being effective and efficient. And that applies to everything that you do. So it was it was something I naturally became interested in. And then how my business started, which was around 2015 2016. I’d started my blog, I’ve been blogging for a few years and had my podcast and I’d always wanted to work for myself, I sort of studied Marketing and Entrepreneurship at university always wanted to be kind of just in charge of my own time and independent. So I’ve been doing the blog for a few years. And I thought, well, what can I do to sort of just replace my salary? So I was working full time at the time. And that was my first goal is I just want to replace my salary. I just need like a few $1,000 a month. And then I could do this full time. And so I thought, well, maybe I could do some some consulting or something. I could work with some businesses because that’s like a quick and easy way to sort of get going. And I thought, what skills do I have? How can I help people and so rather than being too general and sort of being the productivity expert, I actually niche down and focused on a few tools, a few software products that I thought I could specialize in and help businesses which I built my business on. And the services we provide today are around helping companies with Asana, which is a project management tool. I use Asana, right, yeah, there you go, yeah, and hyperdrive, which is a sales CRM. We also do quite a lot with Zapier, we help automate different systems and processes for businesses. And so with those three tools, that’s kind of the core of the business we might not do some. I have some sponsorship revenues from affiliate marketing income, but the bulk of our time and revenue is spent working with small businesses helping on these three tools, helping them to set them up, train their teams, because tools like these like asana and Pipedrive. As you know, there are As good as how well you use them. And so that all I kind of got going with all of that in 2016 on that still on the side while I was working full time. And I was able to kind of replace my salary working on my side business like 15 to 20 hours a week. And I thought, well, if I could, if I can replace my salary during 15 to 20 hours a week, maybe I can, I can now quit my job. And if I do this full time, I should grow my income really. And so I was able to make the leap to full time self employment at the end of 2016. I actually went traveling for five months during that time, when I when I made that switch. Five years later, I’m largely still doing the same thing. My process has changed a lot the team has grown. And, you know, we just continue to refine the process and how we do things. That was a that’s how I got going.
Yeah, that’s awesome. I think it’s very interesting that you said that productivity is a skill set, right? Because that’s, that’s not how I think about it. But the more I get involved in business, and with my family, and I get pulled in all these different directions, the more that makes sense, like I’ve never heard it, heard it put that way. But that that makes sense. And you know, who I want to know who on this planet isn’t trying to be more productive, right? I feel like it touches everybody in everything, regardless of whether you want to spend more time with your cats or, you know, you want to spend more time building your business. And so I think our objective today, Paul should be, let’s focus on these early entrepreneurs, and let’s give them some tips to help them be more productive in those early years that are especially important and especially chaotic. What are veteran experienced productivity experts doing? What are on high on a high level? What are they doing differently than the rest of us?
Yeah, I think the I mean, with the clients that we’ve worked with who are doing really well, or businesses that I think operate really efficiently, have really good systems. And maybe I’m biased, right? Because I My business is around helping people with systems, but I’m drawing on what I know. And if I were to give advice to somebody who’s in that first year, or first six months of their business, I would say, make sure you’re developing and setting up good systems now. Because the challenge that I see a lot of people run into, and this is a large portion of the clients, we work with a businesses who are a few years down the line, that growing quickly, you know, they’ve gotten going there, they’re generating some good revenue, and they’re growing quickly. They’re hiring and scaling their team. But they have, they still have really bad systems. And that could be you know, like, obviously, depending on the business, of course, but you’ve got sales CRMs. Obviously, project management, you’ve got accounting tools, you’ve got tools like Zapier, you’ve got email marketing software, a lot of businesses now these information based businesses, knowledge based businesses, we use, we use a lot of software products, and the businesses who are growing quickly that they often come to me and say, Look, we are growing quickly, which is great problems to have. But we don’t have good systems. And so by not having good systems, I feel like you end up putting a bit of a limit on how much you can grow, or how much capacity you can handle. You know, if you’re, for example, a professional services business, maybe you’re like an agency marketing agency, something like that, you’re only going to be able to handle as many clients or projects as your systems allow. And so that would be my advice is early on, make sure you are setting up your tools and systems correctly. Planning for growth. You know, you should always be always be thinking about how could I double or triple or quadruple my revenue? And my capacity? If I doubled or tripled or quadrupled tomorrow? How would I handle that? Both in terms of the people and the the team that you have around you, but the systems and the tools that you’re using as well, because I think it’s much harder to try and change and optimize your systems later than if you develop a really good foundation from the beginning.
Hmm, give us an example of some tools and systems that very productive entrepreneurs and business owners are using.
Yeah, so really common one would be let’s take the example of like a some kind of professional services company. Let’s just say like a marketing agency or a development agency that does websites or something like that, you know, a client facing business, a tool like Asana, and it doesn’t have to be Asana, Trello. Basecamp has, obviously, dozens of different project management tools. But tools like Asana, or some kind of project management system are really useful for tracking obviously, the work that you’re doing. But I think like something simple that a business like that could do is develop a really good process and build that into your project management tool as a template. So it means that you know, if you if you say right for every new client that we sign up, we’re going to create a new project in our project management tool, there’s going to be this template and that’s going to this template is going to mean that When we set up and we onboard this new client, we have a really consistent checklist and a really consistent process that we follow every single time. Number one, even just the going through that thought exercise of developing the template is really useful. Just thinking about, well, what do I need to do to onboard a new client, what are the steps we need to take, that’s a really useful exercise all on its own. And then it’s going to streamline the actual once you’ve set up new projects, new clients, it means getting going, onboarding those clients is really smooth and a lot more efficient. And then finally, another real big benefit of working through an exercise like that is, as you grow, as you scale, as you hire more people, you’re probably going to be doing less of the work yourself as the entrepreneur, as the business owner, like me, I did everything when I got started. Now I have a team around me that does a lot more of the work for me. And so when you’re hiring people to do the work for you, you need to have your process written down, you need to have it in some kind of project management tool or a template, so that when you hire these new people, you can show them the template and say, here’s our process. And I think a good benchmark for what a good template is, or a good process is, is, if it’s written and explained, clearly, you should be able to give it to somebody, they should be able to follow the checklist, they should be instructions in there on exactly what to do. And they should be able to execute on that with very little input from you.
Yeah, I actually had a guest on once and, and he talked about how he implements that type of arrangement in his company where, you know, every once in a while, and I think he even said that it wasn’t scheduled. So people didn’t know it was coming. He would have people switch jobs, and see how well they could perform the jobs based on Yeah, how good the systems were. Yeah. And I think this is fantastic. Because sometimes I, in my mind, I separate productivity from systems, right. I, in my mind, I associate productivity with how much am I going to get done today? And these two are very interconnected, right? Because I always think of it as me personally, if I’m talking about productivity, if I’m talking about efficiency, I’m always thinking about the company, right? How efficient is the company, but they seem so connected. So to be honest, you’ve kind of caught me off guard, talking about efficiency, and talking about systems in this way. But it, it makes a whole lot of sense. So with people that are just getting started, you know, there’s a lot of entrepreneurs out there that they’ve either decided to not hire anybody, they they’re solopreneurs they do their own thing, or they don’t think they will. And then they eventually do. When would you recommend that people start writing down their, their processes, and they start, they start keeping track of, you know, a step by step protocol of how to accomplish certain tasks in order to increase this efficiency from day one.
Even if you think you might just work on your own, you’re not going to hire anyone, you’re going to do it all yourself. Like I said before, even just the process of documenting that process of kind of stepping back for a second and going What is the process? What are that? What does that checklist look like? That’s a really useful exercise for yourself, even if you’re going to be the one just doing all the work. And it’s also a nice way of just kind of unloading and getting some of that out of your head, if you’re trying to kind of keep everything in your head of like, what is my process? How do I do the work? What’s, what’s my next action with this client? What do I need to do next? Where is everyone at in the process, if you’re trying to remember all that, I don’t know about you, but that just kind of adds like a mental weight and a burden and stress to my, you know, this weight to the to my shoulders. So I would much rather I have this philosophy really of I try and not my goal is to remember as little as possible. I want like our brains, I can’t remember who said it, I think it was maybe David Allen, the author of getting things done. I think he said something like, you know, our brains are not very good at retaining information. They’re very good at processing information, and thinking about what to do and like strategizing and creative thinking, but we’re not very good at retaining information or, and you know, some people are better than others. But I know that if I try and remember everything, I’m going to go crazy. So I try and offload as much of what I’m thinking about and trying to remember into a system as much as I can, whether that’s Asana or pipe drive, so that I can then use my mental bandwidth for, like, critical thinking for creative thinking for actually processing information and working out what to do next. So yeah, even if you even if you don’t plan on on growing and scaling your team, which and I will say I was that person. At the start, I just thought I’m going to do this all on my own. I don’t want the hassle of managing other people for years, I was very hesitant and resistant to hiring other people. That’s all changed in the last 12 to 24 months, and I definitely wouldn’t go back. So even if you don’t think you’re going to hire someone, definitely write the process down. Keep it documented, because you might surprise yourself one day you may well change your mind.
Yeah, that’s interesting. And I think that there’s you know, as you’re talking And right prior to, you know, recording this, I was going through some financial statements. And I was going through my, the process that I’ve created for reviewing monthly financials, kind of seen where we are seeing if we’re on track for the year, things like that, seeing where the opportunities are. And as you’re kind of explaining this, I’m thinking about my process for that. And I’m on board with you, as entrepreneurs, we only have so much bandwidth, right? We have much bigger things than remembering, you know, a step by step process we have, we have personnel we have to focus on, right, we have visions that we’re trying to cure rate and, you know, goals that we’re trying to achieve. And that’s where our efforts, and our mental bandwidth should go. So anyway, kind of going back to these financials. I have, I don’t have a written down process. But I have my my forms, and I just go through this process. And I as I enter the data, things are calculated for me, and they’re packaged in a way that over the years, I’ve learned how it has helped me manage my businesses. What are some other forms of creating processes? And am I kind of taking too much of a logical leap here? Are we on the same pages? Is that kind of one way that I’m, you know, not worried about? Okay, what do I enter here? What do I you know, how do I look at my financial statements? I just have this process of going through it almost automatically.
Yeah, yeah, I think you’re, you’re definitely thinking about it along the right lines, like, you know, in terms of documenting your process, you can write it down, I have, I have documentation literally just like a pay. I’m on a Mac. So I use pages. I have pages documents that outline how my email marketing automation works that outline the instructions that my virtual assistant has to follow. Because she I’ll probably end up replacing her one day if she ends up doing other things like I’ve gone through a few virtual assistants. So I have to have those processes written down forms are really good. Yeah, I love forms. We use them a lot with Asana. But we also in the business use things like jot form and Google Forms. Because forms are a really nice way of collecting the necessary information that you need in a really structured way so that you don’t forget something. An example would be onboarding a new client, what’s all the information you need to start a project? Well, collecting that in a form is really good. And it means that you don’t have to think about writing an email and saying, This is everything I need, you just link them to the form. Other tools, like I mentioned, zap here at the start. I mean, we can get into automation, I mean automation. On the one hand, you’ve got documenting your process so that you or somebody on your team can go and do it later. But if you can actually automate your process, that’s a whole other opportunity to be more efficient. Because why do something yourself? Or why even have somebody on your team do something? If a tool like Zapier or Integra mat, these automation products can actually do the work for you? I mean, that’s that’s the most exciting thing for me is how can I just get software to do my work? I think automation, if you can automate parts of your business, whether it’s your email marketing, or keeping systems up to date, that’s when you have a real there’s a real opportunity to increase the capacity that you have, and how, what level you can operate, like we talked about before, I definitely wouldn’t be able to handle the number of clients that we do without part of our system being heavily automated.
Yeah, I mean, the way to look at it is, I either need a machine slash computer to do it, or I need a person, I need a warm body to do it. Yeah. And you know, as much as you can delegate to a system a platform, I think it makes sense. When you first start a business, it seems like you just get inundated with the amount of systems and software and tools. Yeah. And so what’s the what’s the analysis that someone should go through, because some of them are very expensive. I was just working with our CFO yesterday. And he’s looking into this new counting platform, and it’s, you know, a $20,000 plus fee just to integrate the data, let alone the monthly recurring fee. So what this analysis where it’s like, hate any tool paid, just pay it and, you know, or is there some type of analysis? How do you decide which tools to use and which ones to leave behind? Yeah,
good question. I mean, I definitely remember the early days being a bit more frugal, and rightfully so you know, when you’re still you’re generating a smaller amount of revenue, you need to be a little bit more sensitive to costs, obviously, keep keep profits positive and have good take home pay. So you definitely want to be cautious in the beginning. But the way I’ve the way I’ve always looked at it over the years is how much is this tool going to help me to save time and if you if you start thinking about your time in terms of dollars and clear put an hourly rate on your time. I mean, that’s really easy to do if you are like a coach or a consultant if you charge by the hour. We don’t really do that anymore. We have more packages and projects that we sell, but even still, I still about my time in terms of dollars, I basically rate my time at about three to $400 per hour. Now, that’s kind of how I, what I think it’s worth. So if I am presented with, Okay, here’s some work that I need to do, or here’s a process that I’m going to have to do every week or every month. But over here, there’s a tool that’s maybe going to be 50 bucks a month or something that’s going to help me to save that hour or a couple of hours per month, you can kind of just look at the two and go, well, the cost is x, my time is worth y, it just seems like a no brainer to me. I’ve spent, I did my spreadsheet today, actually, because it’s end of the month I do about I go through my financials probably a bit like you and I looked at all the software that I paid for I pay for a bunch of different tools. And last month, I probably spent around 1000 to maybe $1,200 last month on just on software. So that’s, you know, my email marketing tools, and some of these things I can’t, that’s the other thing is like some of these things I just can’t operate my business without. So I need an email marketing tool, I use ConvertKit. You know, you can use Active Campaign MailChimp, that’s like an essential tool for me, that’s 380 bucks a month. With the consulting that we do, I need things like Calendly for scheduling my me and my team, that’s another 80 bucks a month. Then there’s other there’s things like Zapier, that’s 50 bucks a month. But so so a lot of these things now, for me are non negotiable, because I need them to run my business. Some of them are nice to haves, because they like I said, they help you to save time or get back that hour that I was doing it myself manually. So I guess to kind of finish up my answer, I would say yeah, like in the beginning, you definitely want to pick and choose your tools a little more carefully. Some of them, you sort of have to kind of think ahead in time and think well, yeah, I’m going to be investing in this tool. Now it’s going to be a bit expensive, but it’s going to help me to generate more revenue, or it’s going to increase my capacity. So I can serve as more clients, I’m going to boost sales. So you sometimes have to look at the look forward and think about the future benefit you’re going to get from that increased efficiency.
Yeah, that makes sense. And one thing before we switch gears, one thing that I’ve learned is that if I’m paying something, I need to learn it, right? Yeah. A lot of people think, oh, okay, I’m gonna I’m in the, you know, pay for this software, and it’s gonna solve all my problems, and then you quickly realize, hey, no, it it needs somebody to do something in order to be efficient in order to add an efficiency. You know, I’m really struggling with Asana. Right now, I have a company that uses Monday. And I have a couple of companies that uses Asana. So I personally use Asana. And I’m still, I’m still learning it for the folks listening. If you’re going to pay for a software, don’t think that it’s just it’s going to do all the work for you. You’re going to have to learn how to use it. And you’re going to have to learn how to get the most out of it. Right?
Yeah, I would just jump on that and say, like, I think a lot of people, one of the reasons people switch tools a lot. Like I get contacted by people all the time, they say, Oh, we’re using Asana. Now we’ve tried Trello. We’ve tried Monday, we’ve tried Basecamp. And that’s always interesting to hear, because I think well, what are you wanting the tool to do? Or what’s the problem you’re trying to get this tool to solve? And sometimes people have really technical reasons for switching tools. But often the reason for switching tools, if you actually unpack the problem, it actually comes down to your process and how you’re using it. They like you said, they switch to something like Asana because they think, Oh, it Trello wasn’t working, because it didn’t have the functionality that we need, when actually, it’s how you’re using the tool. So yeah, like we said, at the start, the tool is only as good as how you use it. I mean, most of these tools are pretty similar, I if I wasn’t using Asana, I could run my business on Trello, or Monday or any of them. Yeah, because you’ve got you need to use it properly. A few years ago, when I switched, I was using MailChimp for my email marketing, I’ve used it for about six years, I switched to ConvertKit. And the first thing I did was I signed up to a course, because I wanted, I knew it was quite different. I also knew it had some capabilities that MailChimp didn’t have. And I thought I want to get the most out of this tool. My email marketing tool is probably one of my more expensive products that I pay for it’s $390 a month, I want to make sure I get my money’s worth, I want to make sure I understand how to use it well. And not just to cover the cost of it. But I also know it can help me to boost boost my revenue. And so now some of the automation that I’m doing with email is generating sales that I would not be getting if I hadn’t invested time in this course that really taught me about email automation. So yeah, I mean, that’s one of the things first things I do when I’m invest in a new product is I go on to YouTube, or I sign up to a course and figure it out.
Yeah, 100% and you have to give it a fair chance, right? And I’ve done it in the past where I’m like, you know, I’ll spend five minutes with it can’t figure it out. And I’m like, Hey, let’s switch to something else. And what happens is you start at square one, right? And once you get into a system and you have several people using it, the the cost of switching one one of over the last eight or so years, one of my biggest headaches was system software that took us about a year to be back to square one because everything that’s involved in that so And you know, what’s funny is that and this is kind of an aside, it’s the same thing with vendors. I used to hop around from vendor to vendor, I’m always looking for whoever, you know, was the slickest sales person. I, you know, at the end of the day, it’s like, okay, these guys offer pretty much the same thing. And I think it’s that way with systems, especially with software. Well, you know, we’ve got just a couple of minutes left here, Paul, setting systems, setting software setting processes aside, give us some other productivity tips. What are the successful people doing the most productive people doing? Or what are some things they’re avoiding? What are some things that people can do to free up time and be more productive? And more focused? is multitasking a theme? Or, you know, just wanted to get some of your thoughts on that? Yeah, one
of the things I think is really important in the beginning, is to not get distracted with shiny objects. You know, there’s always there’s so much to be done when you’re starting your business, and you’re in that first six months or a year. And there’s lots of ways you can spend your time. And also, as you grow, I find you get approached more often, I’m sure you’ve experienced this, you get people reaching out to you, hey, can we collaborate? Could we, I now get people saying, can you promote our service or product? You know, you do a sauna? Could you do Monday? And what I’ve learned is the importance of focus and saying no. And the longer I’ve been in business, the more I’ve had to learn to say no, because more opportunities come up, there’s more potential collaborations and partnerships and ideas that I have as well. And what really has helped me to grow, is just staying focused on the things that I do really well. It’s the 8020 principle, you know, from the four hour workweek, or wherever you’ve, wherever you’ve read it, you know, this principle that 80% of your output, you know, call it revenue, 80% of your output and profit comes from 20% of your input all your time. So, focus and identifying what are the 20% of things that I can do to move the needle and generate 80% of my desired result. That’s really important. So being disciplined, staying focused learning to say no, especially in the beginning, when there’s so much to do, and so many things you can distract yourself with, I think is really important. The other thing I would say to entrepreneurs who are in the early days is look after the essentials, what I mean is sleep, diet, and exercise, we often we often put these things off, because I’ve got so much to do, I’m just going to work, you know, 1215 hour day, or 12 or 15 hour day, yeah, because I need to get all this stuff done. If you don’t get good sleep, if you don’t look after your diet and eat well. And if you don’t get regular exercise and just kind of look after your body, you will burn out. And then it’s also it’s like sleep, dine at sleep, diet and exercise other systems for your body. You know, we’ve spent the majority of the conversation today talking about tools and technology and systems so that your business can operate more efficiently. It’s the same thing with sleep, diet and exercise, you have to look after these three areas. Otherwise, your body and your mind your brain will not operate as efficiently as possible. And there will be a limit on how much you can do and what you can achieve.
Yeah, this is awesome. So I read a biography of a guy named Larry Miller, a big business tycoon and in the United States owned the Utah Jazz, big into car dealerships, and he died at a younger age had severe diabetes, because of his he didn’t eat well. He never exercised all these, all these issues. You know, it begs the question, was he productive? Well, I mean, he was very successful, but his life was cut short, probably, you know, 1015 years less than the average person. So did he use his time wisely? Some might say, Well, if you know, he went for a jog three times a week, he would have lived another several years, right? And so it’s kind of stepping back and looking at the bigger picture. And it’s not, hey, sometimes we focus on the micro, right, we’re focusing on was I productive today, in terms of like smaller scale stuff, when we should step back and say, you know, over the course of the year or two years or 10 years or my lifetime, and in order to do that, we have to focus on the things like the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Stephen Covey says, we should focus on things that are important and not urgent, right? That’s where taking care of our body would come in and we get all frazzled. And you know, what’s funny is that I started a workout routine, I really started working out months into my first business, I did it as a way to cope mentally and emotionally. Yes, starting a business, but it has brought so many blessings and advantages to my life. And so the I think, I think that’s a great suggestion in product in terms of productivity.
The other thing to keep in mind is like Why Why are you working for yourself in the First place for me and I imagine a large portion of your listeners are in the same boat. I got into business working for myself to have more freedom in my personal life, I wanted to be independent, I didn’t want a boss to tell me when I have to work or where I have to work or what to work on, I wanted to be in control of my income really is just about being more self sufficient. And so that I could do the things that I want, so that I could take time off, go on holidays, spend time with my family, do the things that I want to do. So that’s why I got into this in the first place. So if you burn the candle at both ends, if you burn out, sacrifice your health, your you’re getting away from like, what was the point of this in the first place? So that’s always important is remind yourself, why you Why are you doing this and productivity? We talked about the science about being effective and efficient. I mean, without getting too deep, in my opinion, the the meaning of life, you know, if there is an answer, if it means something different to everyone, for me, I just want to use my time really well. And so you have to you have to use balance you have for me, productivity and running my business is a means to an end and that end is enjoying my life. And so sacrificing my health sacrificing my sanity is a trade that I don’t want to make
love it. Paul, this is it has been fantastic. It’s clear that I mean, you know your stuff about productivity and I mean business efficiency, this you know, this took a great turn. For entrepreneur listeners. Where can people reach out to you and find you if they want to learn more about what you’re doing?
Yeah, best place is my website. Paul miners, m i n o r s.com. That’s my home on the internet. I also make regular videos for YouTube. You can just type my name into YouTube and I’m on Twitter. Those are kind of the the main places I like to hang out.
Love it. Thanks so much for joining us today Paul and nothing but the best so you future man. Thanks, Alan.
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