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In today’s episode, Allan welcomes back Brian Corr. Brian has been an entrepreneur for the past 28 years. In 1996 he fired his boss and started investing in real estate. Allan and Brian discuss how analyzing housing market indicators, such as market type, inventory, days on the market, and affordability will help determine the best time for profitable real estate investing. As an entrepreneur, if you are looking to invest in real estate, it is important to understand the current market trends.
Brian can be reached at brian@corrpropertygroup.com
Allan has started and grown several multimillion dollar businesses. His mission is to help you do the same. Welcome to the Business Growth Pod, building the future one entrepreneur at a time.
Hey, everyone, welcome to the show. I’m Allan. I’m a family man and attorney and an entrepreneur. Each week, we provide resources and advice to help build your business. Are you ready? Then let’s go.
Hey, everyone, Welcome to the Business Growth Pod. I’m your host, Allan Draper. I’m excited to welcome a guest back that has been on the show before Brian Corr, Brian has been a successful entrepreneur for 25 years. What’s cool is that his biggest goal was to work for himself, so that he could have the freedom that he needed to follow his passions. In 1996, he fired his boss, and back then started working as a builder, and a real estate investor. And we’re going to hear a little bit about what he’s working on currently. So welcome back to the show. Brian, glad to have you.
Yeah, thanks for having me back.
So tell me a little bit like, you know, we’ve heard a little bit about your journey when we recorded about a year or so ago. Why don’t we start there. Tell us about your experience in building and contracting and real estate investing and those types of things. And I eventually want to get to kind of what your mindset is approaching the current economical environment, especially as it deals to real estate.
Yeah. Well, you know, back in 1986, when I fired my boss, I just knew one thing, I wanted time freedom, and I didn’t want to have to answer to anybody. So I felt like I could do what I was doing at the time on my own. And so I just went for it, dove into personal development, self education, mentors, and, you know, just was wide open, open minded and willing to learn, the environment is a lot different back then. I mean, back then, honestly, I didn’t think about the economy at all, it was literally the last thing on my mind, right? I was young, the advantage of being young, you know, I was 22 years old, I just went for it. And so when you’re young, you have a lot of time to make mistakes, right. So when you’re young, you can just go for it. When you’re a little older, you got to plan a little more. But ultimately, I went for it and turned out good. And here I am. 2520 years later, I’m still a self employed entrepreneur. And you know, I just didn’t think about the economy back then it just didn’t even cross my mind. We went into the 2000s, early 2000s, they talked about the bubble then. And I was just I mean, if you’re in action, and you’re surrounded by good people, and you have maybe a mentor coach, or, you know, nowadays with all the resources we didn’t, I mean, I wasn’t even using the Internet didn’t even have email, you know, there was no social media, with the resources today. I mean, people can really have a huge advantage. So I didn’t think about the economy, which back then.
So what are you thinking about it right now? How is what you know, all the talking heads are saying, how does that affect what you’re doing to find deals and invest and kind of stay active?
Yeah, well, obviously, the 2008 crash taught me a lot, I realized you have to pay attention to that stuff. So after the crash of 2008, I learned a lot I learned you have to start watching, you know, some of the economic indicators and paying a little more attention. And really, the good news is there’s a ton of information out there so we can really start to you know, look at information. You know, for example, we’ve been really tracking the MLS and the number of listings coming on. Yeah, inventory. Inventory, right. Such a great indicator, I think we were down to under 5000 homes available in Maricopa County, and everything was selling and selling for way overpriced. And then you know, I think it was in the March, April, it just really started turning in by May, June. It completely turned around. And now we’re seeing just a complete, you know, we’re almost into a buyers market, I would still say it’s a seller’s market, but we’re quickly hitting into a buyers market. So inventory, watching those numbers, and just really watching all the indicators. So what we did, you know, for us, we had the advantage of going through the 2008 crash, we really pull right back. So I did my biggest flip ever actually, in the beginning of this year, I did a luxury home flip, I bought it for 800 and some 1000 sold for about 1.6 and made multiple, six figures and then I just hit pause and I felt like I kind of skin by before things really started to change. Part of that was I was watching the information and the indicators prior to the change and was able to get it sold. Also my buyers locked in their interest rate I think before rates really started to go up. So that helped. And then we hit pause and I’ve literally been kind of been a semi vacation for last three or four months because I have the now I have the advantage to be able to do that financially and also have the knowledge and experience from the past to press hold a little bit.
Yeah, and I think that I mean when we go through moments like that, and that real estate market, I doubt that we’ll ever see that, again, the opportunities that were out there, or what happened when people got crushed. I know that you were in that group also, I mean, everybody got crushed just a different, you know, different degrees. You know, you’ve, you’ve referenced that a couple of times, right? In the short time that we’ve been recorded, you’ve referenced being around and being involved during those years. And it’s interesting, because when we’re struggling, when we’re going through failure, all we want is to get out of it. But now, you know, more than a decade later, you’re looking back and you’re saying, Hey, this is what I learned from it, right? We learned all of these things. So what specifically is your approach to you? And how severe Do you think it’s gonna get just specifically talking about real estate? What do you think is, you know, and I know you don’t have a crystal ball? But where do you think we’re headed? And you know, what’s your best guess?
Well, on one hand, if you’re willing to work, hard hustle and take action, there’s opportunity everywhere every day, right? You do have to be a little bit more cautious in a down market, for sure. And if you have the ability to step back and take a breath in, put your business on a little bit of pause, I think that’s a big advantage, kind of wait it out and see what happens. But ultimately, we know the tides are turning and the markets changing quickly, we’ll be going into a buyers market again, like I said, there’s always deals and there’s really opportunity. So I prepare myself for the opportunity that’s coming. The bigger opportunity. I mean, there’s foreclosures are on the rise, you know, sellers are gonna be more flexible, there’s just gonna be more deals, more opportunities. And so we’re preparing to, you know, kind of do what we’ve always done. I mean, we’re gonna, we buy lists, we call sellers, we see who wants to sell, because we wholesale, we flip in that kind of thing. But ultimately, we just continue to watch the indicators, and we pay attention to, you know, my mentors, people that have been around doing longer than me, and I’m that person, for some people. And for other people. I’m watching people what they’re doing. So, you know, I think it’s going to slow down, we’re going to 20 30%, I don’t think it’s going to be like 2008, I don’t think there’s going to be a huge drop off, because, for example, it depends on where you’re at, if you’re in the south, southwest, southern states, the warmer states, the economies are still fairly strong. And there’s a huge demand. And here in Arizona, you know, they say we’re still have a tenure supply issue. So people will continue to move here. I mean, 250 people a day moved Arizona, there’ll be plenty of opportunity for real estate, but the craziness is gone. And it needs to be gone. Because it just it warps the market, and it warps people’s reality of what’s really going on in real estate. So we needed a cool down. And we’re really just back to kind of almost normalized levels. In fact, we’re probably not even quite at normalized levels when it comes to inventory. But we’re getting there.
You know, I think it’s funny, because if somebody has their house on the market for a week, it’s like, you know, we’re starting to wonder what’s wrong with it, right? Because we’re so used to these abnormal numbers. And what has happened since COVID. And all of that mess. If you could pick just in terms of from approaching it from the standpoint of a real estate investor, would you choose a hot market or a really cool market? So would you choose something where there’s very low inventory? Not a lot of, you know, houses on the market? Or would you choose something more for foreclosures, more houses on the market? Well, more houses
on the market more for closers is always better. And like I said, like, for example, in Arizona, the tides already turned sellers already getting the messages, right. So they’re cooling down and get more realistic. And that’s a good thing. On the other hand, I’ve also been spending a lot of time I’ve recently bought an apartment complex, actually behind me in my background here in Oklahoma. And I’ve shifted some of my business to the Midwest. And we’re actually looking at properties in the Midwest because they’re more reasonable, more reasonably priced. I mean, get a four bedroom, two bath home in parts of Oklahoma and get good areas for 200 $250,000 Still, so I like the Midwest right now. And I’m out of the hot markets like Phoenix because it is too crazy and too volatile. So I’m just paused here, but I’m looking at another market. So if I had any advice, be willing to do virtually you can do it in person. It depends on you know what you’re doing. And but if you’re a real estate investor, a lot of people are doing virtually well and or going to other markets like the Midwest, because prices are just lower, they’re more stable. They don’t have quite the peaks and valleys and so look outside your own market.
Do you recommend that people diversify their real estate assets like they would you know, a set of stocks where you have stuff that may be more volatile? You have stuff that’s more stable, you have single family have multifamily of commercial? Or do you recommend you nail down a market you become an expert in that market you focus on a singular type of housing or real estate What would your advice be, especially to somebody that’s just getting started?
Well, if you’re just getting started, you need a coach and a mentor. There’s no doubt about it. I mean, I’ve spent 10s of 1000s, hundreds of 1000s of dollars on coaching and mentorship. And you can take that for what it’s worth. But if you don’t have somebody to help you along, that’s been ahead of you, you’re going to struggle. But to answer your question more directly, yes, start in your own market, stay in your own backyard, start small, slow and keep it fairly inexpensive, and go out and get your first deal done. And then your first couple deals done, but definitely stay in your own backyard don’t go out. In fact, there was a time you know, where I wouldn’t even go out of we call it the one on one which kind of divides the valley here, I wouldn’t go west to the one on one, I didn’t want to go to Phoenix, I didn’t want to go anywhere. On the west side. If it was 45 minutes away, an hour away, it was too far for me. So I only wanted to be on the east side of town. And you know, Gilbert Mesa, Chandler, Tempe, and that was my backyard, right. So if I couldn’t get there in 30 minutes, I didn’t want to do it. And that served me very well building my portfolio and getting started doing a lot of deals because you just don’t want to be traveling across town and fighting traffic. So starting your own backyard, then you can expand. Now, if you’re a little more experienced or a lot more experienced, of course, you know, I diversified into apartments, I’ve done residential assisted living homes, which I’m going to do another one of those probably this year, I’m willing to travel out of state to even do a flip or partner with somebody that that can do the construction side, for example.
So if somebody let’s say it’s a young kid, they’re in their, you know, early 20s, they want to get started with real estate. They don’t necessarily have enough money for a down payment. Maybe if there’s a program where they have a limited down payment they might qualify for, where do you recommend they get started? I’ve heard some people say, you start wholesaling, that’s a great place to start learn the real estate game a little bit. But where would you with all of this experience that you have? If you had to start over today, with not the resources that you currently have? Right, you’re literally starting over? What do you do?
Well, two things one, wholesaling is a great place to start, because you can do it with no credit, no money and can learn that process. You can buy cheap programs online for 100 bucks, you know, a couple 100 bucks and get started. Just start with that and start slow. If you do, you know, buy into a program online, don’t get caught up in buying the whole mentorship and spending all this money, just start with the base program and get good at that all sounds a great place to start. But if you have some construction ability, or experience or skill, you might want to do a flip. Now, when it comes to real estate investing, when it comes to people doing that, for the first time or on their own, the big obstacle always is Well, where am I gonna get the money? It’s either where am I gonna get the deal? Or where am I gonna get the money. Both of them are two sets of skills you have to learn and get good at. But I’m going to tell you a little story about when I absolutely had to start over after 2008 crash, I lost 22 homes in foreclosure in my own name, millions of dollars in equity. And I was completely wiped out and had to start over. And what I did is I went to a friend of mine and I said Do you know any hard money lenders that I could partner with? That would be willing to fund my deal? 100% Because I don’t have any money. And I had a friend of mine introduced me to a guy that was a hard money lender, I went and met with him had lunch with them. And I said, Look, I got some experience, I want to do some flips. And I’m willing to pay you at that time, believe it or not, I think I did a first couple of deals with him. I said I’ll pay you up to 18 to 24% interest because I didn’t want to partner. What I didn’t want as a part, I just wanted the lender. Yeah. And so I said I’ll pay 18 to 24%. I think I even did 24% On the first two deals. Because I know I if I find a good deal, make a flip, I can make 5080 100% on my money and get it done in three to four months. So that’s what I did. And I’ve actually made literally millions of dollars paying high interest rates to hard money lenders back in the day, because it was cheaper than partnering actually. And if you have integrity, and if you do what you say you’re going to do, and you have a little bit of skill and a plan and you find a decent deal, you can attract that kind of money, no problem that sounds extremely high today with interest rates being so low. But there’s people out there that would love to partner with you and put their money to work, you know, even today, you know, 810 12% a good return. But you get started 1416 18% Say look just you provide all the money, you know what I say all the money, that purchase price, the down payment and the rehab, but zero money out of pocket, and I still do deals to this day where I’ll partner with people, no, put a 100% of the money, I’ll pay him a high rate, I’d rather pay him a higher rate and get 100% of the money than a low rate and have my money in the deal. And it’s very easy to track money when we’re willing to pay a higher rate people think well 18% That’s crazy. Who would pay that? Well, if it’s for three months, it’s no big deal. Yeah, before you know it’s really worth it.
Yeah, I think that’s interesting. And just for the record for my listeners, if you’ve come across a real estate opportunity that you think is very viable, but you can’t find the money. You know how to contact me I’ll be happy to go through the numbers with you and see if it’s a good fit. So kind of open invitation there. I am going to be looking for deals Brian over the next. I buy real estate kind of Little by little, I’m building a house in Naples right now. Naples, Florida. Yeah, that will be done in just a couple of weeks. But I’m always looking, I think I’m gonna double down in the next six to 18 months depending on where the market goes. Yeah, part of it is because I bought a couple of homes in 2007. One of them I bought actually Brian to flip. Right, I still own that house. Okay, but now the story it ends well, right. But at the time, like, I bought my very first house, I bought it to kind of live in it, fix it up, flip, it didn’t work out. But now it’s a great long term rental. So it’s funny because people have you were talking about hard money loans. And I give loans to, you know, if they make sense for me if the collateral makes sense. But there are some people that are so afraid of debt, Rhian, some people think it’s evil. Yeah. And I love your scenario that you drew up where you’re like, Yeah, I paid 20 25% interest. Because if someone came in, and they’re like, Yeah, I’ll let you borrow the money, but it’s going to be a 5050 deal. You just lost 25%. Right? If you’re doing 100% return on your investment. So in that case, you make more money by borrowing it. Right. And especially the cool thing about real estate is, and this is common knowledge to some degree, but I can go get a loan because I have this collateral. And, you know, in your case, you mentioned you didn’t put anything down, which is unbelievable. You know, you can definitely get those deals, but I can borrow on the value of something where with stocks, I can’t do that. So I’m only putting down whatever it is five to 20%. But I get the benefit of the entire asset. After I paid that loan back with that interest. How have you been able to wrap your head around these deals, which, you know, on paper, they look a little more risky, but you’re kind of hedging that risk. You’re interested in that bigger payout? What’s your mental process for saying, okay, I’m okay with these numbers?
Yeah, well, you have to have a good deal. Okay, you have to have a good deal. And that means you have to look, you have to kiss a lot of frogs, right, you have to look at a lot of deals. And you have to get good at looking at deals, analyzing deals and look for patterns. And that’s really the number one skill you need to learn. Either you or somebody in your family. My wife’s a realtor comp and properties getting that skill comparing. So if you’re out, for example, you go out and say I’m going to do my backyard, I’m gonna do Mesa, Arizona, right. And I’m going to look at houses under 300,000 and set some parameters and I’m going to look everyday at houses for sale for sale by owner Zillow, you know, wherever I can get them online, Redfin anywhere, I can look at stuff, MLS, drive neighborhoods, whatever, what’s going to happen is you’re going to develop the skill by developing in some patterns, right? So what’s gonna happen is, you’re gonna go out there and look at three, four bedrooms with the pool, three, or four bedrooms at the pool, three, four bedrooms at the pool, and they’re all ranging in the certain range, and you’re, you’re looking at the pictures, and you’re looking at the houses, and you’re walking, some of them, and eventually, you’re gonna start to pick up on, okay, they’re all trained in about this range. And if they’re a little bit more nicer, they’re a little bit more, and if they’re a little less or a little bit less, then all of a sudden, one’s gonna pop out at you. And it’s going to be, you know, instead of being 500,000 is going to be 350. Or it might be 400, you can negotiate it down to 350. But there’s gonna be something that pops out to you usually, it’s, you know, they’re distressed, they need some work, they got tall weeds, whatever. Or it might even be a clean house, that’s for sale, but it just is dated, never been updated. That’s your opportunity. And you’re gonna know, okay, I’ve been watching this market of incompetent properties, driving properties. I know this neighborhood, I know how fast things are selling, I’m talking to people in the neighborhood, I’m familiar with the new construction that’s going on around it, all the all the great things are going on in this area. And all of a sudden, you’re gonna realize this is a deal. And then you’re going to hone in on that deal. Once you learn that skill and find a deal, you’re not going to be able to do that run the numbers. Now, when you’re running the numbers on a good deal, it doesn’t take long to figure out that it’s going to be profitable. And if it’s profitable, it’s not going to take long or be very hard to attract money to it. So probably the number one thing is figuring out how much work it needs. But once you get good at those things, you’re gonna be able to get the money. Now, the thing about real estate investing or real estate in general is if it’s long term debt, it has to be cheap, cheap money. You know, that’s your 30 year mortgage, and you have to qualify for that. It’s harder to get you can’t get those over and over. It takes time to build up a portfolio. But if you’re flipping and then keeping a rental and like you said every once in a while you get a flip or a deal, that’s bad, and that becomes your rental right? Long term property. But if you’re doing your homework, and especially if you’re working with somebody or following a program, then debt is a tool and you want to use that tool and here’s the thing, all businesses all big investors, all big investments use the debt tool they do. When you hear Dave Ramsey and Dave Ramsey is great for a lot of people but he’s not talking about really building a business or investing in real estate. He’s talking about long term investments, retirement. Don’t buy stupid stuff and have debt on big trucks and boats and stuff like that. But debt is a tool has made me millions and millions of dollars. I mean, I made my first million and several million after that pain back in the day in the Phoenix market, when you go to the foreclosure sales, you had to pay for the house 24 hours after you won the bid, and the market the hard money market at that time, they all got together, they stuck together, and you could not get a hard money loan less than 18%. So that was just the way it was. So I started with that and thought that you know, if that’s what it is, that’s what it is. And I made millions of dollars at 18%. Now, today, I want to pay teen, probably not unless I’m getting 100% of the money 100% of the down payment 100% of the rehab, and I have the skill. So I can pick up the phone like I did on this property I bought for you know, just under about 900,000. And I said look, I need 900 plus a couple 100 For remodel. And because of my background and experience it was he’s like done, I got the money, no problem, I hung up the phone didn’t put a penny in the deal, and paid a high rate on that. And he was happy and I was happy. So once you prove yourself, then it’s even easier to attract the money and money won’t be your problem. It’ll be fine in the deal. There’ll be
a little harder. Yeah, you know, I recently bought a minivan, we bought a place in Idaho to come for the summers. I’m here now, just for a couple more days enjoying the cooler weather, although it’s pretty hot here also, but not compared to Phoenix. Yeah. And I didn’t know really anything about minivans. And so I started to do my research. And I honed in on a Honda Odyssey. And I did kind of exactly what you were talking about with the you know, the three, two with a pool in Mesa three, two with pool and Mesa. And so what happened was, and the used car market was crazy, and you couldn’t buy one new, just impossible, like, and I needed one within a couple of weeks. I didn’t have six months to wait. But I kind of I kind of knew what I was looking for. And I kind of knew the prices after a little bit. And I found one in Utah. And as soon as I found it, like I bought it because I understood like it was a little bit of an outlier. Still crazy expensive. So spent too much money. But I got what I wanted and needed. Because I had done that research. I think that’s true, especially for an beginning investor, like, and the young kids, whatever that means to people. It’s all relative, but at least in terms of experience, they want it right now. Yeah, right. A lot of the draw to real estate is how fast you can do it, even though for me, it’s it’s taken decades, right to really develop a real estate portfolio. But and the size of the return real estate is it’s kind of you know, sexy for younger kids. But I think it’s a long term strategy. It’s something like, first of all, you have to get in there and learn like you were talking about, like find a coach, find a mentor? Where would somebody go Like, who do we trust? There’s so many people out there social media, you know, social media seems like everybody’s an expert. So where does somebody go to find a coach or mentor that they can trust, whether it’s in real estate or some other industry?
Well, that just like anything, get referrals, right, you know, find people that are doing what you want to do, find out who they used as a mentor, or coach and get some feedback, right? Don’t just go online and pick anybody, right? I mean, obviously, get some feedback, get somebody that’s been around a long time, but find somebody local, find somebody that you can meet in person, you know, at their office. I mean, there’s a lot of online programs. But there’s also like in Phoenix, there’s a ton of gurus, there’s a ton of people out there, some are good, some are bad, right. And I know a few I mean, I can name a few. But you really should do your own research and get a referral from a friend or family member or somebody that’s doing it. So go, you know, but to start out, you can go to meetups you can go to, you know, the RE as they call them. Rheas as RIA in Arizona, that easy Rei, Arizona Real Estate Investment Association, or it can be the Wyoming Real Estate Investment Association, go to those places, get around the people that are doing and ask them who they used to who they like. The other caveat with that is, you know, don’t get caught up in the funnel, their buying funnel of selling you programs where they’re going to just, you know, you buy the small one. I mean, I’ve done it all I’ve paid for the big mentorships and it’s totally worth it. But you don’t have to start you can start with the cheap stuff. Get good at that, you know, follow the program and then you know if you can afford it, yeah, jump up into the higher programs, but I mean meetups as Re is really, as we call them referrals online, what else? Those are kind of the main ones that I would recommend. I mean, there’s some really good ones out there that do a really good job.
Awesome. Yeah, that education is so important. And you know, and I go back and forth, because I’ve definitely had mentors and, and programs and books that have helped me in my career. But it’s also the best lessons are the failures in the mistakes, right? Because you don’t make those again, and so I kind of go back and forth. Like, it’s nice to have somebody that’s the cool thing about trying something right. Yeah, it doesn’t matter. You’re gonna win. You’re either going to win or you’re going to learn, you’re gonna
learn Yep. And I’ve done a lot of learning and there’s nothing wrong with failing and the only thing you have to think about There is. And I’ll say this if you’re in your 20s. I mean, if you’re between 18 and even 3035, go for it. I mean, just, you know, go for it. I mean, if you have to start part time, whatever it is, you know, when you can make the big leap. But really, honestly, you have more time than you think if you’re in your 20s, just flat out, go for it right is just put in the work, put in the time, spend the money, you know, if you’ve saved up 234, or $5,000, put that into a program, put that into a mentor or coach, put that into some marketing, go to some seminar, spend the money, go do some personal development, just jump in. I mean, if you’re 40 and older, you got to make sure you pick somebody good. And you’re gonna know from experience, you know, who you like, and who you resonate with, right? Listen to some podcasts, listen to YouTube videos on real estate, who do you resonate with? Where are they from? How long have they been around, and find somebody that you resonate with, and then pick them. But if you’re young, I mean, just flat out, go for it, because you have time to recover. Now, you know, that happened to me, I got wiped out. But I had time to recover. Now I’m almost 50, I’m 48 years old, I’ll be 49 this year. And after the 2008 crash was in my mid 30s. But I had time to recover. It was a hard time, it was very tough. I really had to dig into personal development work on myself more, but I came out of it with the experience of buying literally, you know, in my case, I bought 1000s of homes and you know remodeled button then 1000s of foreclosure. So I had a lot of experience. So that really helped a lot. But ultimately just Yeah, so that I’ll stop there. But there’s that’s kind of what I would do.
Yeah, that’s I mean, that’s such great advice. And it’s great advice with pretty much anything. If you’re thinking about your relationships. If you think about your spiritual life, if you’re thinking about trying a new workout routine, whatever. Yeah, like, time is the most valuable thing that we have. And time cures pretty much everything it does. And that’s one of my favorite things about real estate is if you’ve got time and you’re patient, you will win, you will win. Like regardless of what the economy does. If you’re looking at, hey, what am I going to do over 20 years, 30 years versus what am I going to do this your next? You’re going to win? So I think that’s fantastic advice. Well, thanks for joining us today. Brian, we’re gonna have to have you back. Yeah, we need to do a deal together. One of these days, you’re the master and I look to you as a mentor. And I’ve run deals by you before where I’m like, Hey, Brian, what do you think about this, and it’s been very insightful. So thanks for joining us today, man. And wish you nothing but the best in the future.
Yeah, I really appreciate it anytime. Yeah, let’s do another one. I’ll talk about apartments on syndication or multiple streams of income or whatever, whatever you want to talk about, but we’ll do a deal. I have some ideas. So I’ll be in touch so you enjoy your vacation. And thanks for having me again. All right.
Thanks, Brian. All right. Take care.
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